Brother Talarian Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Brothers, as I’m sure you’ve seen, rapid fire bolter weapons have gotten a substantial buff in the beta rules. I think starting a thread on this topic could be of use. Do you think terminators will be viable? Storm raven and the beloved LRC seem a lot more worth it now! Sternguard? Intercessors? Having the fire storm WLT and the Master Swordsman warlord trait can make for some interesting combinations! Let’s share our thoughts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think that this will definitely push me towards rhinos with 2 stormbolters and jump packed charakters instead of Black Tide. Also might get a second bike squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5239444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Dakka Centurions in a LRC? It's almost Orklike. MORE DAKKA! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5239518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon_Ilias Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 It's great for the LRC, it'll buff him against hordes and lower the risk of being surrounded immediately Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5239663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I’m thrilled to try it out on my land raider and it almost makes me want some sternguard. Overall it’s nothing game changing but at least shows us that GW is aware of the problems with marines and seeking a solution. I’m just glad Astartes bolters are finally distinguished from sister and guardsmen bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5239674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Well to me at least this is the best place basic terminators have been since 4th ed. With the CA 2018 points drop and now this update having their bolters working at full effect all the time is nice. Now I don't think they are going to change the game or be a new constant but they will be a ok choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 I think that’s a great aspect of this beta rule, it doesn’t make things OP or must haves, but it gives us the ability to take things we might want to take without it being a hindrance. I myself am looking forward to fielding my LRC, it’s straight up better now and can maybe manage to make up its points before it blows up or get tied up :). Sternguard are also a super sweet option, they also look super cool. Intercessors now seem appealing to me, mixed with the indonitus crusade they can be pretty brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Honest question, do people really believe 12 more Bolter shots at 12-24" turns the Landraider from trash to viable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Honest question, do people really believe 12 more Bolter shots at 12-24" turns the Landraider from trash to viable? To me, no but this is one mans opinion. I would not call it trash but it has some major weaknesses that are easily exploited in 8th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 After the points drop I would not consider it trash. And yes, it’s most definitely viable in my opinion. There’s a difference between viable and competitive. Firing an extra 12 shots can certainly help. You can more reliably thin down a horde of orks while being out of charge range, and then fire again, or even move further away and fire again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Honeslty I think one of the little things this will change for us. Is that 8-11 man Crusader Squads have a point. A 9 man Crusader HvyBolter/Plasma/Plasma is 141 or 130 points if only doing 3 Neo’s. While Faux Devi at 100 points is better for backfield duties. This 130 point squad can hold our flanks cheaply. And still be able to contribute to the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Bit of extra ranged oomf for Ironclads stomping their way up the field as well. Not a game changer, but seeing as they can quite easily spend most of a game chasing things, being able to reach out and touch someone a bit more effectively mitigates the problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolvar Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I love this new rule, specially for our crusader squads with bolters, because they will have more presence in the table. Bikes gain some extra firepower too, alongside terminators and vehicles (Rhinos, LRC, and almost everything that isn't tank hunters). Without it, a basic marine with bolter feels too underwhelming, just tax points for the special/heavy weapons. You could trade the bolters for cheerleader's pom-poms and you wouldn't notice it. With this new rule, initiates with bolter, alongside bikes and terminators with stormbolter have a decent firepower, at least they would be noticed. Call me a weirdo, but I've always included at least 1 or 2 (at 1250>= points) 8-10 man crusader squads with bolter+special weapon+heavy weapon for objective camp, because in my mind there has to be that unnegotiable minimum for objective capture and hold duty, plus another 10 man crusader squad with chainsword loadout for forward/enemy deployment area objectives, and maybe another 6 man depending on how many points the game is. Gotta use those troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 So, nobody's saying anything about 10/10 squads in a Black Tide list? I used to do that in 6th and 7th because 20 bolters is a surprise to some armies. An unpleasant one. Seems like a nice, not too OP change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Well to me at least this is the best place basic terminators have been since 4th ed. With the CA 2018 points drop and now this update having their bolters working at full effect all the time is nice. Now I don't think they are going to change the game or be a new constant but they will be a ok choice. dont forget 5th edition I think that’s a great aspect of this beta rule, it doesn’t make things OP or must haves, but it gives us the ability to take things we might want to take without it being a hindrance. I myself am looking forward to fielding my LRC, it’s straight up better now and can maybe manage to make up its points before it blows up or get tied up . Sternguard are also a super sweet option, they also look super cool. Intercessors now seem appealing to me, mixed with the indonitus crusade they can be pretty brutal. not the shots but now we have a plattform which must not be into 12" of the enemy to get full potential - and being charged by the enemy. I dont think it will be that huge step - but its better then just 12 shots more So, nobody's saying anything about 10/10 squads in a Black Tide list? I used to do that in 6th and 7th because 20 bolters is a surprise to some armies. An unpleasant one. Seems like a nice, not too OP change. at least its a new option to hold a big squad back. Hiding the Cenobites in the back makes them both more durable. but its a mini buff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hey man don't steal my profile pic Like our Revered Honda said, a 10/10 Black tide Gunline will do some damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Another thing I have thought of is that taking 10 sternguard with no upgrades is just 160 points and you can plunk them in the backfield and get 20 shots at AP -2 with a 30" range. Plus they have a nice strategem to increase their usefulness Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5240854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Well to me at least this is the best place basic terminators have been since 4th ed. With the CA 2018 points drop and now this update having their bolters working at full effect all the time is nice. Now I don't think they are going to change the game or be a new constant but they will be a ok choice. dont forget 5th edition Very true! Two big things happened with 5th that killed the standard terminators to me. First point cost went down on many units making armies larger. The second thing is we had a newer style codex design starting with IG. GW took those old codexes and vastly increasing the volume for fire by x2 or x3. I still loved 5th but was a major change in direction in my point of view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5241083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyWalrus Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Bikes are probably the biggest winners. 3 bikes and a Storm Bolter on the Sword Bro is less than 75 points, and nets you 16 Bolter shots, a 14" move, T5, a 38" threat bubble. Bit miffed that Sword Brethren on bikes are so expensive, but 5 bikes with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields could be a thing anyway. That's 40 shots, 3++ saves, and the ability to use the Vigilus stratagems in a pinch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5241552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I'm thinking of adding some sternguard to take advantage of the new beta bolters rules. I like the fact that they have longer range and they can now sit outside of charge range and fire twice if they don't move. I'm thinking I'd use them to camp midfield objectives or drop in back field to pick off and harass things before they get charged. Given those intended uses, how would you kit them out? Do I keep them small and cheap with their default bolters? Or do I go big with all the extras? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5242190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I'm thinking of adding some sternguard to take advantage of the new beta bolters rules. I like the fact that they have longer range and they can now sit outside of charge range and fire twice if they don't move. I'm thinking I'd use them to camp midfield objectives or drop in back field to pick off and harass things before they get charged. Given those intended uses, how would you kit them out? Do I keep them small and cheap with their default bolters? Or do I go big with all the extras? I'd keep them cheap. The whole reason to take them is the Special Issues bolters. I'd probably run them 10 if you can fit it because its only 160 points for the squad. The only upgrade I would consider is a PF for the sgt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5242203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolvar Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 That loadout sounds extra classic Acebaur. Love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5242242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Is 10 sternguard possibly a good answer to eldar jet bikes? I am unsure as of yet what to do against a large amount of Flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5242361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Is 10 sternguard possibly a good answer to eldar jet bikes? I am unsure as of yet what to do against a large amount of Flyers. A Stalker minces eldar jetbikes. So, a Crusader Squad, 10/10, with 19 Bolters and a Storm Bolter, good or what? I like @Firepower's point about Ironclads with Hurricane Bolters. No loss of shots or accuracy as wounds are lost. I only wish you could put the storm bolter on the other arm for 4 more shots. So, Rhinos with 2 Storm Bolters are likely to show up more on the table top now. Cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5242893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 my big hope is that units with the Astartes keyword get a similar treatment for chainswords/powerswords,..too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353293-beta-rules-bolters/#findComment-5243215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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