IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 With the new beta rules for rapid fire bolt weapons announced. I want to know if the stalker pattern boltgun sto has it’s uses or if storm bolters are flat out better. I believe they still have a use as back field objective holders. A little more niche now, but they still do that job well. They have 6” extra range and a built in ap-1. So while storm bolters will reach 30” with -1.. the stalker can extend to 36” -2.. alternatively, they can fire at 30” -1 and wound on 2’s.. I like this, it’s like having two types of SIA in the same round. I believe it’s still a good enough reason to field at least one unit of stalkers. A side note, they partner well with heavy bolter and missile launcher (for the mortal wounds) as they’re also heavy. Whats everyone else’s thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think they want to eventually make the Primaris stalker rifles the replacement scout sniper rifle. Although we do not get it, there is a new SM detachment to give them sniper. Right now they want to replace the old with the new so I doubt there will be any changes on our Vet gear while they will slowly buff the Primaris gear. Honestly the moment they give Primaris stalker rifles the sniper rule its all over for backfield Vet stalker squads. The only problem is that I like my missile launchers so I haven't got any plans to replace my rear guard Vet squads with Intercessors yet, but replacing stalker rifles with storm bolters will come down to personal choice. Is that squad going to move at all? If yes then you choose the storm bolters, if no then you go stalker for the -ap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Is 6" extra range really that valuable when you give up mobility, flexibility, and tons more damage? 4 shots AP -1 is better than 2 with any SIA combination at all times. Pile on the lack of mobility and it start looking like you're trying to force a unit into a role but give up so much to do it. Having the unit be more flexible and more effective is worth giving up 6" of range. With Bolter Discipline, there is no tactical situation that the storm bolter won't excel at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Why take stalker boltgun vets when you can take storm bolter vets or intercessors with bolt rifles? Both exceed the stalker boltgun. I knew the moment I saw bolter discipline my stalker boltgun squads, nice as they are, are functionally obsolete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think they want to eventually make the Primaris stalker rifles the replacement scout sniper rifle. Although we do not get it, there is a new SM detachment to give them sniper. Right now they want to replace the old with the new so I doubt there will be any changes on our Vet gear while they will slowly buff the Primaris gear. Honestly the moment they give Primaris stalker rifles the sniper rule its all over for backfield Vet stalker squads. The only problem is that I like my missile launchers so I haven't got any plans to replace my rear guard Vet squads with Intercessors yet, but replacing stalker rifles with storm bolters will come down to personal choice. Is that squad going to move at all? If yes then you choose the storm bolters, if no then you go stalker for the -ap. My plan is to take a single stalker squad with 6 stalkers, 1 missile and 1 heavy bolter. They’ll sit backfield and camp an objective. The rest of my army is made from storm bolters, dreads and characters. I feel like this is stalkers place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 Is 6" extra range really that valuable when you give up mobility, flexibility, and tons more damage? 4 shots AP -1 is better than 2 with any SIA combination at all times. Pile on the lack of mobility and it start looking like you're trying to force a unit into a role but give up so much to do it. Having the unit be more flexible and more effective is worth giving up 6" of range. With Bolter Discipline, there is no tactical situation that the storm bolter won't excel at. You make a good point Lemondish. However if my unit intends to stay still and camp an objective, it is worth the trade for the range and ap-1 IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 Why take stalker boltgun vets when you can take storm bolter vets or intercessors with bolt rifles? Both exceed the stalker boltgun. I knew the moment I saw bolter discipline my stalker boltgun squads, nice as they are, are functionally obsolete. No question that storm bolters are superior. That goes with out saying. But that doesn’t mean stalkers have no place. This thread is to discuss what that place is. I do however disagree with stalker bolt rifles being better. Stat wise they’re better. But primaris can’t take storm shields / terminator for the durability, which I feel makes stalker pattern boltgun the stronger choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I still like them for the above mentioned heavy bolter/ml strat usage squad. If GW would give them back their sniper profile tho... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Why take stalker boltgun vets when you can take storm bolter vets or intercessors with bolt rifles? Both exceed the stalker boltgun. I knew the moment I saw bolter discipline my stalker boltgun squads, nice as they are, are functionally obsolete. No question that storm bolters are superior. That goes with out saying. But that doesn’t mean stalkers have no place. This thread is to discuss what that place is. I do however disagree with stalker bolt rifles being better. Stat wise they’re better. But primaris can’t take storm shields / terminator for the durability, which I feel makes stalker pattern boltgun the stronger choice. Where did I say stalker bolt rifles? You're misreading the sentence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 Why take stalker boltgun vets when you can take storm bolter vets or intercessors with bolt rifles? Both exceed the stalker boltgun. I knew the moment I saw bolter discipline my stalker boltgun squads, nice as they are, are functionally obsolete.No question that storm bolters are superior. That goes with out saying. But that doesn’t mean stalkers have no place. This thread is to discuss what that place is. I do however disagree with stalker bolt rifles being better. Stat wise they’re better. But primaris can’t take storm shields / terminator for the durability, which I feel makes stalker pattern boltgun the stronger choice. Where did I say stalker bolt rifles? You're misreading the sentence. That’s my bad, I did miss read stalker bolt rifles for bolt rifles. My point remains the same though, primaris don’t have access to shields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Primaris are also inherently tougher vs massed AP0 D1 fire, which veterans with shields are not. Primaris are also tougher to resist mortal wounds, which veterans, again, are not. The only time that primaris are weaker are against AP- weapons with D2+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius0288 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The selling point IMO is being able to mix special/heavy weapons. If you aren't going to, just use an intercessor unit for ranged bolter fire. I love my missile/heavy bolter unit with stalker Bolters. Like it was said earlier, they have their place. It was suggested to me in a different forum that maybe you could mix some storm Bolters in the unit to give it some more flexible firepower Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Intercessors have direct access to hot plasma death in spades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 The stalker already had trouble comparing to the strength and versatility of storm bolters. now it has a bit more range, and only outperforms at the end of its range, and then not by quite that much. Intercessors or storm bolters can do the stalker vets job better and cheaper now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353297-is-the-stalker-pattern-bolter-dead/#findComment-5239980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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