Buried Dagger: Doom of the Death Guard

[m_r_parker]

Thanks for the info

 

One quick question for you, is there any info on what happened to Corswain and his Dark Angels force who were fighting against typhoon and his grave wardens?

 

Nope, nothing yet. Typhon makes his appearance at the beginning of the novel (stealing a kill from Mortarion no less) with no details about his time away.

[b1soul]

"cults that leave broken (and talking) Sisters of Silence in their wake"

 

This does not sound good...but will try to reserve judgement

[DarkChaplain]

I don't see why it doesn't sound good. Swallow incorporating the Sisterhood makes sense, seeing how he first tackled them in Flight of the Eisenstein and their oaths of silence are not inviolable.

 

In fact, one major character in Swallow's works concerning them poses an example of an oathbreaking Sister, at least in private. I believe The Voice from Tales of Heresy went into that. Amendera Kendel also left the Sisterhood to join Malcador as Agentia Tertius (with Garro being Primus) and is the first "regular" human to issue the Exterminatus decree on a planet.

 

Nothing but their own determination to keep true to their oaths to the Emperor prevent them from speaking. In The Beast Arises, we see Sisters who had shed their oaths of tranquility during their exile, but reestablished them anew in front of the Golden Throne after their return. To now see Sisters being mentally broken - with their mental faculties being the crux in keeping to their oaths - to the point of raving like madwomen? I don't see anything wrong with that. It drives home the sheer terror of what's to come during the Siege, and what the Imperium would suffer if Horus wins.

Edited February 12, 2019 by DarkChaplain

[b1soul]

Yeah...I wasn't impressed the last time Swallow tried his hand at "horror"

 

Sorry, can't see Swallow pulling this off, but hope I'm wrong

[Rob P]

I enjoyed Flight of the Eisenstein and thought Fear to Tread was meh (but mainly because the whole story at Signus was already pretty well known - the first bit of the novel was interesting though).

 

I'm kind of excited about this book. Didn't think a Death Guard only novel could carry on it's own and i'm glad to see what has been thrown in to beef it up.

 

I hope Mortarion has a good downfall.

 

And with that i'm avoiding this thread until after I've got my hands on it, because ... no more spoilers!

[Ogun]

I actually quite enjoyed Nemesis. Its juxtaposition of the extremes of a local law enforcer conducting an murder investigation while Horus' advance is darkening the horizon was quite memorable. Swallow also always gave Horus a hell of an atmospheric cameo, something some of the other authors have struggled with. He feels like how I imagined Horus should be when I first read the fluff back in White Dwarf in the late 90s early 2000s. McNeil's by contrast just left me underwhelmed.

Swallow is also the first author to me who nailed Dorn's voice and character. Others have followed, but the Dorn in Horus Rising is a bit off to me and it was Flight which properly brought him to life. 

Guardedly optimistic for this then.  

[Angel_of_Blood]

Finished.

 

Novel is very much split into two parts. The Death Guard and the Knights Errant.

 

For the Death Guard there’s nothinh groundbreaking here. Mortarion reunited with Typhon, who pretty much waves his absence away by saying he had to find himself more or less. Is visibly more gaunt. They jump to the warp for the advance to Terra at which point a lot of Death Guard, crew and even Mortarion himself are laid low temporarily by a seemingly psychic attack choking them. Typhon offers to use his psykers(who Mortarion hates) to find the cause and Typhon with fake evidence already planted on each ship tells Mortarion the navigators we’re working for the Imperium and kills them all leaving them stranded in the warp for a time.

 

Starting with one Legionnaire, but spreading slowly, the Death Guard begin to fall victim to a plague that is all diseases, or a ‘Destroyer’ as Mortarion puts it. At which point anyone familiar with Typhus knows what’s happening. Mortarion makes a bargain for Grulgor ‘life eater’ to obey him, also showing he is infected. Eventually confronts Typhon and sets Grulgor on him. Then there’s a weird moment where Grulgor starts strangling Typhon who chokes away...then they stop and laugh away revealing they are(shockingly....) working together under Nurgle. Again it’s just really odd and didn’t sit right. Typhon then swallows, literally, the destroyer hive which flows from Grulgor and becomes Typhus. Mortarion then wanders off and slowly the Death Guard and he all succumb and he agrees to serve Nurgle, promptly transforms into a deamon prince and the Death Guard, now transformed arrive at the Sol system.

 

All this is intersected with Mortarion youth and rebellion on Barbarus, leading up to the Emperor killing Morts ‘father’ and him stating he will always hate him. I feel the Barbarus parts weren’t really needed and the pages could have been used for a much slower corruption and sickening of the Death Guard. Which leads me to my main gripe being how quickly it all happened. Lots of setup and then all of a sudden they’re all disease ridden and struck low. Mortarion has a little internal struggle and falls bad himself, small bargaining from Nurgle aaaaaand we’re done.

 

I personally wanted chapters worth perhaps of them getting worse, Mortarion refusing Nurgles offers before finally breaking. His transformation also takes about two sentences? Again something I would have like to have seen in a lot more detail. So yeah. Nothing groundbreaking, not awfully executed, but uninspired and rushed at the end.

 

 

As for the Knights Errant. For the most part we have Rubio discovering Malcador’s confidante trying to run away before committing suicide(he then appears again alive later). The main plot is then Garro, Varren, Rubio and Helig Gallor(at one point accompanied by Ison, then later the mysterious Yotun) being dispatched to cull Nurgle cults which Garro realises are worshiping or controlled by the Lord of the Flies, which possessed Solun Decius so long ago. Along the way they discover captured, tortured and broken Sisters of Silence.

 

The sisters are taken back to a psy warded mountain where Loken is, but not before a group of then babble enough coherent words to state Horus wants peace with Malcador. Malcador knowing it’s likely a trap goes down with Rubio to the captured sisters and sees if he can get a full message with all of them there, as despite everything he can’t pass what might be a chance at peace. Turns out it isn’t, the sisters say conditoned words which activate Rubio.

 

This is where he lost he tbh. Turns out 7 years prior on the battle for Calth, Erebus captured Rubio and with some shenanigans set up some key words and focused a core of hate for Malcador in Rubio, so that evidebtly 7 years later, knowing that Rubio would accompany Malcador, would assassinate him. It’s about as :cuss as it sounds. As it happens Malcador has obscenely overpowered dark age tech shields and Rubio can’t even hit him through the shield. Malcador incapacitates Rubio, kills the sisters and wipes Rubios memory of his sleeper agent antics.

 

Whilst that’s happening, the others are fighting off an attacking army of cultists led by the Lord of Flies who kills Varren. Garro speaks to it, questioning how it can be alive when he ejected Decius remains into the sun. Turns out he inexplicably did not dispose of Meric Voyens body in the way after he killed him for being infected. Malcador arrives and destroys the deamon.

 

They all then go back to the Palace. At which point we find out Malcador’s confidant is a clone of an Eldar Malcador captured(and constantly commits suicide every time Malcador unloads his secrets and worries on him). Malcador then gives Rubio, Ison, Severian, Ianius, Loken, Yotun(a space wolf), a Raven Guard and two Unknown’s, new names, leaving Garro out. He then takes the others to see the Emperor and releases Garro from his service to find his own fate. The 9 others have a chat with the Emperor and arevtokd they’re off to Titan, but Loken refuses and says that’s not his fate. Malcador’s Eldar buddy opens a wraithgate to Titan and off they go, bar Loken. Loken then goes to Garro who is with Gallor and the Seventy Death Guard from the Eisenstein.

 

Oh Garro has a quick chat with Keeler. Rubio also hints that Loken might be a psyker.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Angel_of_Blood

[mc warhammer]

I actually quite enjoyed Nemesis. Its juxtaposition of the extremes of a local law enforcer conducting an murder investigation while Horus' advance is darkening the horizon was quite memorable. Swallow also always gave Horus a hell of an atmospheric cameo, something some of the other authors have struggled with. He feels like how I imagined Horus should be when I first read the fluff back in White Dwarf in the late 90s early 2000s. McNeil's by contrast just left me underwhelmed.

Swallow is also the first author to me who nailed Dorn's voice and character. Others have followed, but the Dorn in Horus Rising is a bit off to me and it was Flight which properly brought him to life.

Guardedly optimistic for this then.

have to agree. dorn was the highlight of that book

[Fire Golem]

Finished.

Novel is very much split into two parts. The Death Guard and the Knights Errant.

For the Death Guard there’s nothinh groundbreaking here. Mortarion reunited with Typhon, who pretty much waves his absence away by saying he had to find himself more or less. Is visibly more gaunt. They jump to the warp for the advance to Terra at which point a lot of Death Guard, crew and even Mortarion himself are laid low temporarily by a seemingly psychic attack choking them. Typhon offers to use his psykers(who Mortarion hates) to find the cause and Typhon with fake evidence already planted on each ship tells Mortarion the navigators we’re working for the Imperium and kills them all leaving them stranded in the warp for a time.

Starting with one Legionnaire, but spreading slowly, the Death Guard begin to fall victim to a plague that is all diseases, or a ‘Destroyer’ as Mortarion puts it. At which point anyone familiar with Typhus knows what’s happening. Mortarion makes a bargain for Grulgor ‘life eater’ to obey him, also showing he is infected. Eventually confronts Typhon and sets Grulgor on him. Then there’s a weird moment where Grulgor starts strangling Typhon who chokes away...then they stop and laugh away revealing they are(shockingly....) working together under Nurgle. Again it’s just really odd and didn’t sit right. Typhon then swallows, literally, the destroyer hive which flows from Grulgor and becomes Typhus. Mortarion then wanders off and slowly the Death Guard and he all succumb and he agrees to serve Nurgle, promptly transforms into a deamon prince and the Death Guard, now transformed arrive at the Sol system.

All this is intersected with Mortarion youth and rebellion on Barbarus, leading up to the Emperor killing Morts ‘father’ and him stating he will always hate him. I feel the Barbarus parts weren’t really needed and the pages could have been used for a much slower corruption and sickening of the Death Guard. Which leads me to my main gripe being how quickly it all happened. Lots of setup and then all of a sudden they’re all disease ridden and struck low. Mortarion has a little internal struggle and falls bad himself, small bargaining from Nurgle aaaaaand we’re done.

I personally wanted chapters worth perhaps of them getting worse, Mortarion refusing Nurgles offers before finally breaking. His transformation also takes about two sentences? Again something I would have like to have seen in a lot more detail. So yeah. Nothing groundbreaking, not awfully executed, but uninspired and rushed at the end.

As for the Knights Errant. For the most part we have Rubio discovering Malcador’s confidante trying to run away before committing suicide(he then appears again alive later). The main plot is then Garro, Varren, Rubio and Helig Gallor(at one point accompanied by Ison, then later the mysterious Yotun) being dispatched to cull Nurgle cults which Garro realises are worshiping or controlled by the Lord of the Flies, which possessed Solun Decius so long ago. Along the way they discover captured, tortured and broken Sisters of Silence.

The sisters are taken back to a psy warded mountain where Loken is, but not before a group of then babble enough coherent words to state Horus wants peace with Malcador. Malcador knowing it’s likely a trap goes down with Rubio to the captured sisters and sees if he can get a full message with all of them there, as despite everything he can’t pass what might be a chance at peace. Turns out it isn’t, the sisters say conditoned words which activate Rubio.

This is where he lost he tbh. Turns out 7 years prior on the battle for Calth, Erebus captured Rubio and with some shenanigans set up some key words and focused a core of hate for Malcador in Rubio, so that evidebtly 7 years later, knowing that Rubio would accompany Malcador, would assassinate him. It’s about as :cuss as it sounds. As it happens Malcador has obscenely overpowered dark age tech shields and Rubio can’t even hit him through the shield. Malcador incapacitates Rubio, kills the sisters and wipes Rubios memory of his sleeper agent antics.

Whilst that’s happening, the others are fighting off an attacking army of cultists led by the Lord of Flies who kills Varren. Garro speaks to it, questioning how it can be alive when he ejected Decius remains into the sun. Turns out he inexplicably did not dispose of Meric Voyens body in the way after he killed him for being infected. Malcador arrives and destroys the deamon.

They all then go back to the Palace. At which point we find out Malcador’s confidant is a clone of an Eldar Malcador captured(and constantly commits suicide every time Malcador unloads his secrets and worries on him). Malcador then gives Rubio, Ison, Severian, Ianius, Loken, Yotun(a space wolf), a Raven Guard and two Unknown’s, new names, leaving Garro out. He then takes the others to see the Emperor and releases Garro from his service to find his own fate. The 9 others have a chat with the Emperor and arevtokd they’re off to Titan, but Loken refuses and says that’s not his fate. Malcador’s Eldar buddy opens a wraithgate to Titan and off they go, bar Loken. Loken then goes to Garro who is with Gallor and the Seventy Death Guard from the Eisenstein.

Oh Garro has a quick chat with Keeler. Rubio also hints that Loken might be a psyker.

Could you give your spoiler free thoughts on how the novel is?

[b1soul]

@ Angel_of_Blood

 

That sounds rather...awful. Surprised you could finish. Will definitely skip this one.

[Angel_of_Blood]

 

Finished.

Novel is very much split into two parts. The Death Guard and the Knights Errant.

For the Death Guard there’s nothinh groundbreaking here. Mortarion reunited with Typhon, who pretty much waves his absence away by saying he had to find himself more or less. Is visibly more gaunt. They jump to the warp for the advance to Terra at which point a lot of Death Guard, crew and even Mortarion himself are laid low temporarily by a seemingly psychic attack choking them. Typhon offers to use his psykers(who Mortarion hates) to find the cause and Typhon with fake evidence already planted on each ship tells Mortarion the navigators we’re working for the Imperium and kills them all leaving them stranded in the warp for a time.

Starting with one Legionnaire, but spreading slowly, the Death Guard begin to fall victim to a plague that is all diseases, or a ‘Destroyer’ as Mortarion puts it. At which point anyone familiar with Typhus knows what’s happening. Mortarion makes a bargain for Grulgor ‘life eater’ to obey him, also showing he is infected. Eventually confronts Typhon and sets Grulgor on him. Then there’s a weird moment where Grulgor starts strangling Typhon who chokes away...then they stop and laugh away revealing they are(shockingly....) working together under Nurgle. Again it’s just really odd and didn’t sit right. Typhon then swallows, literally, the destroyer hive which flows from Grulgor and becomes Typhus. Mortarion then wanders off and slowly the Death Guard and he all succumb and he agrees to serve Nurgle, promptly transforms into a deamon prince and the Death Guard, now transformed arrive at the Sol system.

All this is intersected with Mortarion youth and rebellion on Barbarus, leading up to the Emperor killing Morts ‘father’ and him stating he will always hate him. I feel the Barbarus parts weren’t really needed and the pages could have been used for a much slower corruption and sickening of the Death Guard. Which leads me to my main gripe being how quickly it all happened. Lots of setup and then all of a sudden they’re all disease ridden and struck low. Mortarion has a little internal struggle and falls bad himself, small bargaining from Nurgle aaaaaand we’re done.

I personally wanted chapters worth perhaps of them getting worse, Mortarion refusing Nurgles offers before finally breaking. His transformation also takes about two sentences? Again something I would have like to have seen in a lot more detail. So yeah. Nothing groundbreaking, not awfully executed, but uninspired and rushed at the end.

As for the Knights Errant. For the most part we have Rubio discovering Malcador’s confidante trying to run away before committing suicide(he then appears again alive later). The main plot is then Garro, Varren, Rubio and Helig Gallor(at one point accompanied by Ison, then later the mysterious Yotun) being dispatched to cull Nurgle cults which Garro realises are worshiping or controlled by the Lord of the Flies, which possessed Solun Decius so long ago. Along the way they discover captured, tortured and broken Sisters of Silence.

The sisters are taken back to a psy warded mountain where Loken is, but not before a group of then babble enough coherent words to state Horus wants peace with Malcador. Malcador knowing it’s likely a trap goes down with Rubio to the captured sisters and sees if he can get a full message with all of them there, as despite everything he can’t pass what might be a chance at peace. Turns out it isn’t, the sisters say conditoned words which activate Rubio.

This is where he lost he tbh. Turns out 7 years prior on the battle for Calth, Erebus captured Rubio and with some shenanigans set up some key words and focused a core of hate for Malcador in Rubio, so that evidebtly 7 years later, knowing that Rubio would accompany Malcador, would assassinate him. It’s about as :cuss as it sounds. As it happens Malcador has obscenely overpowered dark age tech shields and Rubio can’t even hit him through the shield. Malcador incapacitates Rubio, kills the sisters and wipes Rubios memory of his sleeper agent antics.

Whilst that’s happening, the others are fighting off an attacking army of cultists led by the Lord of Flies who kills Varren. Garro speaks to it, questioning how it can be alive when he ejected Decius remains into the sun. Turns out he inexplicably did not dispose of Meric Voyens body in the way after he killed him for being infected. Malcador arrives and destroys the deamon.

They all then go back to the Palace. At which point we find out Malcador’s confidant is a clone of an Eldar Malcador captured(and constantly commits suicide every time Malcador unloads his secrets and worries on him). Malcador then gives Rubio, Ison, Severian, Ianius, Loken, Yotun(a space wolf), a Raven Guard and two Unknown’s, new names, leaving Garro out. He then takes the others to see the Emperor and releases Garro from his service to find his own fate. The 9 others have a chat with the Emperor and arevtokd they’re off to Titan, but Loken refuses and says that’s not his fate. Malcador’s Eldar buddy opens a wraithgate to Titan and off they go, bar Loken. Loken then goes to Garro who is with Gallor and the Seventy Death Guard from the Eisenstein.

Oh Garro has a quick chat with Keeler. Rubio also hints that Loken might be a psyker.

Could you give your spoiler free thoughts on how the novel is?

It’s no awful. It’s certainly readable. But that’s all it is. Average, maybe even below average. Some parts that should have been intense or really engrossing weren’t. Important parts felt rushed. And there was nothing groundbreaking really. I know he had a established event to write, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done something more. Like Calth was made into a truly intense and captivating read by Abnett.

 

I mean really we all know the Death Guard fall to Nurgle in the way to Terra. Many of us even know how that happened. So other than giving a more lengthy show of how, you could more or less skip the novel and not be left in the dark too much as to the Death Guard.

 

You do need to read it for the Knights Errant if you’re interested in them. Even if again it doesn’t blow you out the water like it maybe should have done.

[b1soul]

Imagine if Swallow did Calth and Abnett did Signus...I wonder what we'd get

[Angel_of_Blood]

After reading Anarch and how well Abnett can actually write horror, Signus would have been very disturbing I’d imagine. And I just don’t want to think about Swallow writing Calth.

[m_r_parker]

There's one recurring theme throughout this novel which is starting to grate on me, which is Mortarion's blind-spot for Typhon. I'm half way through the book (haven't actually read any more since earlier in this thread), and the amount of times Typhon does something to annoy Mortarion and yet seemingly is allowed to get away with it because of their time on Barbarus is obscene. I'm constantly coming across Mortarion being angry and going "If it were anyone else but Typhon, I would have killed them for that" and it's so annoying. What's really disappointing is that I like the depictions of Mortarion on Barbarus, but I know now that they're mainly there to justify why Mortarion is giving Typhon so much leeway.

 

The other thing I'm more concerned about, which is less about the novel itself but more about the series as a whole, is that this novel doesn't feeling like a natural jumping-off point into a separate "Siege" series. Fall of the Death Guard, great. Fate of the Knights Errant, cool. But this doesn't make me feel that by the time I finish he novel I'm going to be ready to go straight into "Siege" - in my mind there's a missing book that puts everything together, and has a representational gong to announce that the conflict for the Sol system has begun. I don't think I'm going to get it in this novel.

[Tymell]

 

The other thing I'm more concerned about, which is less about the novel itself but more about the series as a whole, is that this novel doesn't feeling like a natural jumping-off point into a separate "Siege" series. Fall of the Death Guard, great. Fate of the Knights Errant, cool. But this doesn't make me feel that by the time I finish he novel I'm going to be ready to go straight into "Siege" - in my mind there's a missing book that puts everything together, and has a representational gong to announce that the conflict for the Sol system has begun. I don't think I'm going to get it in this novel.

 

I got that kind of feeling from Slaves to Darkness. Maybe in retrospect, Buried Dagger would be better before that one?

[Fedor]

From the spoilers it reads like Mortarion gives in quite quickly to Nurgle once infected? I was hoping for a grinding, brutal struggle against it physically and mentally from him and the legion for a good portion of the book, with the body horror slowly escalating.

[DarkChaplain]

After The Path of Heaven, I had the impression that Mortarion was going to hunt down Typhon and hold him accountable, not constantly excuse his treacheries out of a shared history. Even from modern 40k novels, it seemed more like the two have a rather uneasy, spiteful relationship that is held together solely due to their shared fealty to Nurgle.

[Marshal Loss]

From the spoilers it reads like Mortarion gives in quite quickly to Nurgle once infected? I was hoping for a grinding, brutal struggle against it physically and mentally from him and the legion for a good portion of the book, with the body horror slowly escalating.

 

Same. That's a big disappointment.

[Sandlemad]

There's one recurring theme throughout this novel which is starting to grate on me, which is Mortarion's blind-spot for Typhon. I'm half way through the book (haven't actually read any more since earlier in this thread), and the amount of times Typhon does something to annoy Mortarion and yet seemingly is allowed to get away with it because of their time on Barbarus is obscene. I'm constantly coming across Mortarion being angry and going "If it were anyone else but Typhon, I would have killed them for that" and it's so annoying. What's really disappointing is that I like the depictions of Mortarion on Barbarus, but I know now that they're mainly there to justify why Mortarion is giving Typhon so much leeway.

 

Huh, so we're back to Typhon being Barbaran then? Lords of Silence seemed to have him fairly firmly as Terran.

[bluntblade]

That's well established as being a slip on Wraight's part, isn't it?

 

Is there any indication of Mortarion actually bringing Typhoon to heel as intended?

[nagashnee]

Sounds about right for a Swallow book. Good thing they did not give him Sanguinius primarch book..

 

[Angel_of_Blood]

That's well established as being a slip on Wraight's part, isn't it?

 

Is there any indication of Mortarion actually bringing Typhoon to heel as intended?

 

No. And by the time he does have his moment of "I will make him listen/pay/etc" It's laughably too late.

[Angel_of_Blood]

There's one recurring theme throughout this novel which is starting to grate on me, which is Mortarion's blind-spot for Typhon. I'm half way through the book (haven't actually read any more since earlier in this thread), and the amount of times Typhon does something to annoy Mortarion and yet seemingly is allowed to get away with it because of their time on Barbarus is obscene. I'm constantly coming across Mortarion being angry and going "If it were anyone else but Typhon, I would have killed them for that" and it's so annoying. What's really disappointing is that I like the depictions of Mortarion on Barbarus, but I know now that they're mainly there to justify why Mortarion is giving Typhon so much leeway.

 

The other thing I'm more concerned about, which is less about the novel itself but more about the series as a whole, is that this novel doesn't feeling like a natural jumping-off point into a separate "Siege" series. Fall of the Death Guard, great. Fate of the Knights Errant, cool. But this doesn't make me feel that by the time I finish he novel I'm going to be ready to go straight into "Siege" - in my mind there's a missing book that puts everything together, and has a representational gong to announce that the conflict for the Sol system has begun. I don't think I'm going to get it in this novel.

 

 

After The Path of Heaven, I had the impression that Mortarion was going to hunt down Typhon and hold him accountable, not constantly excuse his treacheries out of a shared history. Even from modern 40k novels, it seemed more like the two have a rather uneasy, spiteful relationship that is held together solely due to their shared fealty to Nurgle.

 

Yeah this bothered me massively too. "I loath psykers and want nothing to do with them in my legion! But I suppose I'll let it slide for Typhon. But all other psykers can piss off" Also was gratingly annoying.

 

From the spoilers it reads like Mortarion gives in quite quickly to Nurgle once infected? I was hoping for a grinding, brutal struggle against it physically and mentally from him and the legion for a good portion of the book, with the body horror slowly escalating.

 

Indeed, it was very disappointing to not see a long and brutal breakdown of his character.

[bluntblade]

 

 

That's well established as being a slip on Wraight's part, isn't it?

 

Is there any indication of Mortarion actually bringing Typhoon to heel as intended?

No. And by the time he does have his moment of "I will make him listen/pay/etc" It's laughably too late.

Damn. I was hoping to see something like Typhon having to be seriously sneaky, after all that referencing the fact that Mortarion had lost his grip on him.

[Fedor]

The Khan is going to give Mortarion a serious verbal roasting when they meet again.