Buried Dagger: Doom of the Death Guard

[Apothecary Vaddon]

So - is Epimetheus the Nemean? I don't recall any other DA being recruited into the Knights Errant. It doesn't entirely mesh with some of the stuff from earlier novels but...he's the only candidate that fits, AFAIK, and my understanding of The Buried Dagger is that this is the end arc of the Knights Errant (i.e, there is not going to be any big reveals or works about them from here on out)

[Morovir]

Quite possibly. Epithemus remarks that he 'never had a true name before', and the Nemean's name is never revealed. Also, he is name-dropped by Garro alongside Loken and Rubio, both of whom were intended to be founding members of the Grey Knights.

[Taliesin]

Did I misread the beginning or is nobody talking about the huge bit of info on the Lost Legions (or at least one of the primarchs)??

 

I just read a few pages but there is a reference to Mortarion's giant stature and that there are only two human beings bigger than him.

Then it says the first was killed by the second. And the second.... that's a story for later. That what you'r referring to?

[DarkChaplain]

It's rather open for debate, but wasn't Vulkan supposedly the tallest? Curze killed him, and he was described as being slightly taller than Guilliman or the Lion in The Unremembered Empire, it seems. Magnus also was a giant.

 

I don't really think those two lines amount to much when we have no definitive heights for all the known Primarchs to begin with. We have multiple instances of Primarchs killing Primarchs by now, though it is debatable how much Mortarion knows about them, outside of the obvious Ferrus. Let alone the possibility that it's not even about Primarchs, seeing how the Emperor wasn't the only one playing with gene-tech and the Great Crusade had unnumbered divergent civilizations of humanity, including abhumans.

[caladancid]

It's rather open for debate, but wasn't Vulkan supposedly the tallest? Curze killed him, and he was described as being slightly taller than Guilliman or the Lion in The Unremembered Empire, it seems. Magnus also was a giant.

 

I don't really think those two lines amount to much when we have no definitive heights for all the known Primarchs to begin with. We have multiple instances of Primarchs killing Primarchs by now, though it is debatable how much Mortarion knows about them, outside of the obvious Ferrus. Let alone the possibility that it's not even about Primarchs, seeing how the Emperor wasn't the only one playing with gene-tech and the Great Crusade had unnumbered divergent civilizations of humanity, including abhumans.

I thought Magnus was acknowledged as being the tallest primarch I’m more than one place. That’s sort of my assumption. If that is so, then he is one of those two and Mortarion knows he is alive. We also know that the two lost primarchs were killed, just not by who. What a twist if Magnus had killed one of them.

 

I guess we don’t know for sure if that references primarchs but the suggestion is there.

 

Also the quote says two beings. Not human beings.

 

-edit

 

For clarity- the quote I am talking about is "Only two beings had ever stood taller than the Reaper of Men; the first had died at the hands of the second.  As to the fate of the second..."

Edited February 24, 2019 by caladancid

[Morovir]

My impression was that it was his foster-father Necare and the Emperor.

[Fire Golem]

My impression was that it was his foster-father Necare and the Emperor.

Just from reading what’s been posted here, that’s what my mind immediately went too as well.

[caladancid]

My impression was that it was his foster-father Necare and the Emperor.

 

I did not think about that.

 

Is Mortarion really taller than Magnus? That would obviously change what I was thinking.

[Carach]

not sure magnus even counts because the guy seems to be able to change his form at will.

[Roomsky]

I took it as a figurative "standing tall," and so read it as his foster father and the Emperor. As in - only 2 ever stood over him, lorded over him, were acknowledged by him to be his superiors. I believe Magnus is the tallest, but the context of the passage gives no reason as to why he'd be talking about Magnus. 

[1ncarnadine]

also: would Mortarion ever openly admit that Magnus was larger than him in any way whatsoever?

[bluntblade]

I took it as a figurative "standing tall," and so read it as his foster father and the Emperor. As in - only 2 ever stood over him, lorded over him, were acknowledged by him to be his superiors. I believe Magnus is the tallest, but the context of the passage gives no reason as to why he'd be talking about Magnus.

It seems to quite clearly echo a line in Path of Heaven: "Mortarion had only ever bent the knee to two souls in creation."

[Taliesin]

In what book do we learn of Necare?

[Wulfburk]

This one, there are flashbacks to the time on Barbarus

[caladancid]

 

I took it as a figurative "standing tall," and so read it as his foster father and the Emperor. As in - only 2 ever stood over him, lorded over him, were acknowledged by him to be his superiors. I believe Magnus is the tallest, but the context of the passage gives no reason as to why he'd be talking about Magnus.

It seems to quite clearly echo a line in Path of Heaven: "Mortarion had only ever bent the knee to two souls in creation."

 

 

I don't disagree with much of what has been said, and maybe the line was just not considered fully by Swallow.  BUT, it does seem very easy to just write that line above vs a line which seems to be about height.  He is specifically discussing his stature compared to the Deathshroud.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Related: Illiyan Nastase when?

[Taliesin]

 

 

I took it as a figurative "standing tall," and so read it as his foster father and the Emperor. As in - only 2 ever stood over him, lorded over him, were acknowledged by him to be his superiors. I believe Magnus is the tallest, but the context of the passage gives no reason as to why he'd be talking about Magnus.

It seems to quite clearly echo a line in Path of Heaven: "Mortarion had only ever bent the knee to two souls in creation."

 

 

I don't disagree with much of what has been said, and maybe the line was just not considered fully by Swallow.  BUT, it does seem very easy to just write that line above vs a line which seems to be about height.  He is specifically discussing his stature compared to the Deathshroud.

 

 

Yeah that passage very clearly seems to suggest that his height is being compared, and it is to be taken literally.

Not in the sense that "there are only two greater beings around" in terms of power.

 

Maybe Swallow messed up. Certainly Magnus should be one of the two , we know that much, and it doesn't seem as if Mortarion is referring to him...

[Wulfburk]

Really enjoyed this book, specially its final parts.

 

 

but i agree that mortarion's turn was rather too quick, and that he seemed rather too easy to be played about by Typhon. He looked clueless all the time and just going with the tide.

 

Quite liked Garros and Loken's parts, great closure of this part of their archs IMO, even got some nostalgia from back when i was reading the first four books.

 

 

Since a lot of Barbarus was detailed in this book it does leaves me wondering what will be detailed on Mortarion's primarch novel.

[Tymell]

I'm a few chapters in, and wondering about something (spoiler only concerns events in the 4th chapter of the book, no further):

 

In the 2nd Knights-Errant chapter, one of Malcador's Chosen, a woman, is seen piloting a Storm Eagle, which is taken down, killing her. Is this Banu Rassuah, the pilot from Vengeful Spirit? She's never named, and indeed the book feels like it's going out of its way to avoid naming her. Is there a known reason for this?

 

The only thing I can think of (and I might be wrong about this too) is there was a confusing mention in Wolfsbane of a male human among Malcador's chosen named Rahua, with the indication that Rahua was one of the ones sent to Molech. I remember thinking at the time that this was odd, as there's no Rahua mentioned in Vengeful Spirit, only Rassuah, who is female. I wondered then if this was a mistake, and now I wonder if this is following on from that?

 

They may well be completely unconnected though, it just sprang to mind as Buried Dagger seems to work so hard not to name this person.

[Bulwyf]

Still really pissed about the fact the first actual true heresy Death Guard novel will share the spotlight with damn loyalists as frankly I don’t give a damn about the grey knights their predessors or whatever I just hope the major focus will solely be on the Death Guard and their fall as i’ve been looking forward to it actually being written as a novel for years ever since the first heresy novel was released

 

Completely agree with this. Also the fact Chris Wraight not being the author and one of the few bad BL authors in James Swallow being the author has my bar very low.

[Marshal Loss]

At least we got the absolutely spectacular Lords of Silence out of Wraight, even if we didn't get his coverage of their fall, and we'll presumably get another look at Wraight's Mortarion during the Siege.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Marshal Loss

[MarineRaider]

I finished this yesterday. I will have re-read it eventually. I liked parts ( the end in particular) and found the pacing laborious and at times boring. Mort is not a very interesting Primarch to me. He whines too much, doesn't really seem that bright and his relationship with Typhus is just strange compared to the other Primarchs and their First Captains. In fact he comes across as a wuss at times. His drama with the E again makes me think how much like children these 9 foot killing machines act. Temper tantrums and daddy issues....but hey lets go kill a few billion humans.

 

I know it would NEVER happen but I would love for the Imperial Guard to set a trap for him in 40k and nuke the crap out of his larva filled butt and kill him for a little while. At least Perturabo is smart.

[Moonreaper666]

I finished this yesterday. I will have re-read it eventually. I liked parts ( the end in particular) and found the pacing laborious and at times boring. Mort is not a very interesting Primarch to me. He whines too much, doesn't really seem that bright and his relationship with Typhus is just strange compared to the other Primarchs and their First Captains. In fact he comes across as a wuss at times. His drama with the E again makes me think how much like children these 9 foot killing machines act. Temper tantrums and daddy issues....but hey lets go kill a few billion humans.

 

I know it would NEVER happen but I would love for the Imperial Guard to set a trap for him in 40k and nuke the crap out of his larva filled butt and kill him for a little while. At least Perturabo is smart.

Imperial Guard are the worse faction to send against the Forces of Nurgle

 

Better send some Grey Knights and Eldar along with some Ork Mercenaries as cannon fodder/distraction

[Marshal Loss]

 

I finished this yesterday. I will have re-read it eventually. I liked parts ( the end in particular) and found the pacing laborious and at times boring. Mort is not a very interesting Primarch to me. He whines too much, doesn't really seem that bright and his relationship with Typhus is just strange compared to the other Primarchs and their First Captains. In fact he comes across as a wuss at times. His drama with the E again makes me think how much like children these 9 foot killing machines act. Temper tantrums and daddy issues....but hey lets go kill a few billion humans.

 

I know it would NEVER happen but I would love for the Imperial Guard to set a trap for him in 40k and nuke the crap out of his larva filled butt and kill him for a little while. At least Perturabo is smart.

Imperial Guard are the worse faction to send against the Forces of Nurgle

 

Better send some Grey Knights and Eldar along with some Ork Mercenaries as cannon fodder/distraction

 

 

Why would you send them when you could send Blood Gorgons?

[Kilofix]

These Navigators ... they’re, um ... traitors. Yeah traitors, definitely traitors! Oh whoops, killed them all. Guess I’ll take over from here