Sisters codex (proper) wishlisting 2.0

[Atrus]

Well the beta codex has been out for a while now and has been received with varying degrees of reception.

Assuming GW do as they promise/say/rumoured in listening to our feedback, what do you hope to see in the proper codex when it drops?

 

Aside from the glaringly obvious buff to Hand of the Emperor and Divine Guidance; i had an idea for the Praesidium Protectiva.

Now im avidly against combat Celestians, mostly because a lot of the ideas center around storm shields which i hate.

 

But my thoughts on the Praesidium today were for models equipped with one to have a 4++ invulnerable save. I dont like 3++ as like i said, hate storm shields.

 

I wouldnt want to see a whole squad kitted out with them myself, but letting a handful of models in a squad take one would be cool considering the second part of a rule i have for it being that: units that suffer a mortal wound as a result of the Bodyguard rule, ignore the mortal wound on a 2,3,4,+ (i cant decide).

 

I realise as i finished writing that, that its pretty much the tau shield drone rule of ignoring the same thing; but screw tau, i thought of this before i knew of their rule.

 

Laud hailers allowing the aura effects of characters embarked inside transports equipped with them would be nice. Maybe limited to only one characters buffs or one buff from a character?

 

Maybe a Celestian dataslate chamge for equiment to include:

Up to 2 celestians may equip Sarissas to their bolters. (Sarissas offering -1ap in combat)(in a futuristic setting, i envisions sarissas being like a bayonet with a powerfield)

2 celestians may swap their bolter for 2 special weapons or a special and a heavy.

Up to 2 celestians may exchange their bolters for Praesidium Protectiva.

 

Now thats a Celestian datasalte i could get behind.

 

And the usual wishes:

Cannoness jump pack

Cannoness eviscerator

Another Sororitas HQ choice

Custom saints

[Beams]

I'd really just want Celestians to switch from Bolter bolt pistol to bolt pistol Chainsword

 

I'd also like a buff to AoF.

 

 

Edit: also, St. Praxedes

[Eddie Orlock]

So, what if Praesadiums we're implemented like medieval pavise's. So, 2++ from shooting, but only if the Celestians in question didn't move. And maybe mix that in with some special issue ammo?

 

Got your storm shield elites, but didn't step on the toes of crusaders combat role.

[Slasher956]

Or go full on Pavise... 50% of a unit exchange their bolt gun for a Praesadium.  A unit with Praesadium's cannt advance but may move as normal.

 

A Praesadium add +2 to any save taken in the shooting phase and -1 to hit rolls in the combat phase.

[Jomgor]

meh. Celestians should all have the same options as a Sister Superior

 

A complete escort for whatever you kit the cononess to be, she gets a complementing bodyguard. Rather than you only get a bodyguard if you have a spare elite slot and points you literally have nothing else to waste points on because of the sheer pigeonholing that happens with them just being a BSS with the bodyguard rule.

 

A special rule where they mirror a Canoness's AoF within 6"

 

they might actually have a role in my army for their cost at that point. anything less and they will forever remain an auto-exclude. I refuse to take an entire unit that cant synergize with any HQ other than pure shooty Canoness as a tax for the bodyguard special rule I will use sparingly anyways thanks to transports.

 

 

 

I'd like transports to get AoF if their occupants all have it. Laud Hailer wargear for tans and on tanks should be different from Laud Hailer on legs; when their bubbles both hit a squad it should be +1 to Devo rolls as well as re-roll. with auto AoF being possible if you stack enough roll reducers like ebon chalice and imagifiers.

 

AoF- Start with 3FP +3 for every 3 force org slots filled with an <order> unit, +1 more for each squad of Celestians, Seraphim, Dialogous, Priests, Canoness, Excorcist. A unit can attempt the same AoF in the same turn but only pass it once. There is no other limit to how many AoF can be used in any one turn.

 

Hand of the Emperor   Devo: 4 - 6" move + units can advance and fire assault without penalty, rapid fire can advance and shoot at -1 to hit, and heavy can move and shoot with no penalty

 

Spirit of the Martyr   Devo: 4 - recover D3 wounds or D3 lost models

 

Aegis of the Emperor  Devo 3 - Use at the start of any phase, for the rest of the phase the unit gets a 4+ save against mortal wounds

 

Divine Guidance  Devo 5 - Bolter weapons add 2 to their shots profile, Flamer weapons become 12", ignore cover with +1 strength against things in cover, Melta weapons roll 2d6 picking the highest for damage and deal an additional mortal wound at half range with each hit.

 

The Passion  Devo 5 -  use in Charge Phase, re-roll failed charges, fight twice in subsequent fight phase

 

Light of the Emperor - same + if the squad does nullify a morale test with this effect roll a D6 on 5+ a FP is not lost

 

 

 

Valorous Heart - same + Below 50% starting strength (rounding up) squads with this order ignore wounds on a 5+

Argent shroud should just be reverse of Our Martyred Lady - 1 destroyed enemy unit = 1 FP

Sacred Rose - Same + flamers can always overwatch

 

 

Vessel of the Emperors Will  3CP - use after a successful AoF with a Canoness or Celestine. Friendly <order> units within 6" of the character may use a single AoF with Devo value of 4 or less without rolling for activation until the start of your next movement phase. This still costs 1 FP.   Devo value 5 must still be rolled for with a +1 modifier.

 

Burning Descent - Same + 12" range for inferno pistol too

 

Holy Trinity - Same except each weapon type only needs to fire at an enemy in range rather than the SAME enemy.

 

New Strategem - 1 CP, use after successful charge by Death Cult Assassin, unmodified hit rolls of 6+ cause an additional mortal wound

 

New Strategem - 2 CP, Use when declaring a charge with crusaders or when a friendly unit within 6" of a crusader is being charged. The Crusaders can re-roll charge/Intervene range until the end of the phase. If a friendly unit was charged the crusaders can Intervene up to D3+3" each must end their move closer to the charging unit than they started. Any enemies that are in range to hit the crusaders this fight phase must do so.

 

 

Inspiring orator - same + Laud Hailer effect

Righteous Rage - +3 to charge range, re-roll wounds on charge, charged, or heroic intervention

Executioner of Heretics -  -2 leadership to enemies in 6" of warlord, D3 extra casualties when enemies flee from morale within 6"

Beacon of Faith - If warlord is on the table at the start of movement phase roll D6, on 3+ one ally <order> unit may choose to either use an Aof this turn with no need for a Devo roll OR not expend a FP

 

 

Penengines - Vanguard rule, Can move and shoot without penalty, can fire flamers in combat like pistols with wound rolls of 5+ hitting the Engine too

 

Excorcist - Heavy 2D3  S8  AP-4  D 2D3, successful Shield of Faith saves give +1 FP

 

Preacher - can take pistols and power sword/maul

 

Mistress of Repentance/ Repentia Squad - Whenever a Repentia squad succesfully passes a Devo roll one Mistress within 6" may choose to automatically pass a Devo roll for the same AoF. This still costs 1 extra FP.  And vice-versa with mistress activating>repntia copying.

 

Geminae - 3W  2+sv, Lifewards change to regular bodyguard, <order> (must be same as celestine if in same army, detachments included), Swords +1s -3AP 2D, Pistols S4 -1AP 2D     Special rule: +1T and re-roll all saves when in 6" of Celestine

 

Missionary - Same wargear options as Canoness + plasma gun (no jumpack)

 

Jacobus - Enemies within 12" and in LoS subtract 1 from LD to a max of -2 LD, and receive +1 casualties from failed morale tests

 

Celestine - <order>, Miraculous intervention - after death set up within 24" of where she died and not within 1" of enemy units, Celestine can auto pass 1 Devo roll each turn, Celestine Denies with SoF on 2d6, Celestine can Re-roll failed invul saves.

 

Canoness - wargear: jumpack, "This model may take a weapon from the melee weapons list OR pistols list"

 

 

 

of course theres the units we don't know exist yet and their rules could completely 180 my opinions about what we have seen. but until then this is the perfect world I dream of.

[Beams]

I like AoF being models not units -- that way it isn't punishing large squads and forcing MSU, especially since we have so many morale mitigation options.

[Jomgor]

I like AoF being models not units -- that way it isn't punishing large squads and forcing MSU, especially since we have so many morale mitigation options.

I dont see it as punishing large squads at all. I see it as keeping them from running away with AoF scaling. 10 girl squads give less FP but each use of a FP is far stronger than if you used it on 5 girls.

 

I see it as: You want massive AoF that change games with 1 or 2 uses, or would you rather MSU the acts over a larger area and time.

 

It also punishes people less for mixing anchor squads in MSU lists or irregular squad sizes that would add up to being 3-4 models away from another FP and subjectively feeling terrible

[Beams]

 

 

I like AoF being models not units -- that way it isn't punishing large squads and forcing MSU, especially since we have so many morale mitigation options.

I dont see it as punishing large squads at all. I see it as keeping them from running away with AoF scaling. 10 girl squads give less FP but each use of a FP is far stronger than if you used it on 5 girls.

 

I see it as: You want massive AoF that change games with 1 or 2 uses, or would you rather MSU the acts over a larger area and time.

 

It also punishes people less for mixing anchor squads in MSU lists or irregular squad sizes that would add up to being 3-4 models away from another FP and subjectively feeling terrible

The problem is that it's such a limited resource though.

 

You get faith points based on number of models, and then your only allowed to use it once and also have an upgrade per squad that improves it. which are all designed for a one use and max sized squads

 

Changing it to one point per x squads is going to make it even weirder in inplementation.

[Jomgor]

 

 

I like AoF being models not units -- that way it isn't punishing large squads and forcing MSU, especially since we have so many morale mitigation options.

I dont see it as punishing large squads at all. I see it as keeping them from running away with AoF scaling. 10 girl squads give less FP but each use of a FP is far stronger than if you used it on 5 girls.

 

I see it as: You want massive AoF that change games with 1 or 2 uses, or would you rather MSU the acts over a larger area and time.

 

It also punishes people less for mixing anchor squads in MSU lists or irregular squad sizes that would add up to being 3-4 models away from another FP and subjectively feeling terrible

The problem is that it's such a limited resource though.

 

You get faith points based on number of models, and then your only allowed to use it once and also have an upgrade per squad that improves it. which are all designed for a one use and max sized squads

 

Changing it to one point per x squads is going to make it even weirder in inplementation.

 

I'm not sure i'm understanding your position? in my proposal you can use 1 of each AoF each turn for each squad, not just attempt. I dont see how they are designed for a single use or max squads. obviously they will benefit more from a single use with max squads but overall they would then get less FP to do that with.

 

how does it make it "weirder" in implementation?

[Dominoris]

While we are wishing, I want plastic Repressors with rules included in the main codex

 

And zealots, arbites and all the other lost ministorum units

Celestians with chainswords, any number of which are upgrade-able.  (I want a unit with 5 stormbolters)

Unnamed living saint/prioress 

Biker bolter babes

Holy Relic - 10 point vehicle upgrade; +1 Faith point to army

Acts of Faith usable once per unit per phase.

[ValourousHeart]

I'm hoping for some shakeup on our CCW.

 

I loved the Brazier of Holy Fire and would give that out like candy.

My Dominion Squads would run with a priest and superior both armed with a Brazier of Holy Fire and a combi-flamer.

A 6 template unit was brutal with our acts of faith back then... and the squad could do that 2 turns.

 

While it would be great to get the Eviscerator back, it shouldn't be the only effective option.

But instead of getting rid of it, they should make some other unique CCW options for us that line up like the sword, ax and mace line up but be the Eviscerator, Brazer of Holy Fire and something else.

 

The Brazier of Holy Fire is a torch, so have it function like a mace but also act like a flamer.

Maybe have each hit explode into multiple hits, or maybe just if any successful hits are scored, add extra hits.

[Waking Dreamer]

meh

Geminae - 3W  2+sv, Lifewards change to regular bodyguard, <order> (must be same as celestine if in same army, detachments included), Swords +1s -3AP 2D, Pistols S4 -1AP 2D     Special rule: +1T and re-roll all saves when in 6" of Celestine

 

We were brainstorming this unit in the other Elite thread. Those are some pretty beastly buffs. They wouldn't be 50 points total anymore right?

 

How much would you point them with those stats?

[Slasher956]

Actually.... what we NEED is 

 

longer ranged Anti Tank... ie more than 1 weapon system that range 48!  MAX threat is 60 at BS 4+

longer ranged anything... we have 1 @ 48" & 1 @ 36"... every thing else is 24 or less....

 

something that ignores LoS

 

A method / option for taking on a guard artillery park other than pure luck!

[Jomgor]

 

meh

Geminae - 3W  2+sv, Lifewards change to regular bodyguard, <order> (must be same as celestine if in same army, detachments included), Swords +1s -3AP 2D, Pistols S4 -1AP 2D     Special rule: +1T and re-roll all saves when in 6" of Celestine

We were brainstorming this unit in the other Elite thread. Those are some pretty beastly buffs. They wouldn't be 50 points total anymore right?

 

How much would you point them with those stats?

 

As much as I hate uneven points costs probably something like 38-44 each including wargear.

 

their stats and gear didn't seem to really reflect to me they were resurrected martyr Canoness's blessed by the emperors light. They seemed like seraphim Celestine could resurrect. I figured a heavy assault role is something we lacked but terminators would be meh, plus another elite datasheet, and just not very sister-y. But some, what are essentially Daemonic Heralds for the Emperor? I could see those being T3 terminators in short supply.

 

extra buffs for being close to their patron Daemon Prince ofc.

 

I'll strap myself into the Penitent Engine for my heresy now.

[Lightbox]

I'd like to see palatines added so we can represent smaller orders that would only have one canoness. Also jump packs and eviscerators would be amazing.

 

I'll also echo the earlier statements that more unique ccw would be awesome and giving celestians better loadouts so they have a role besides overpriced battle sisters with 1 extra attack. If we're gonna give our canoness bodyguards they should be able to support her well whether she shoots or wades into CC.

 

One unique weapon could be a unique chainsword for celestians, like give it a +1 str or some AP or something. Sisters are often depicted with chainswords and eviscerators so would be great to see them pack a bit more bite into them. Kinda like how striking scorpions have better chainswords.

 

And definitely improvements on acts of faith to either allow more points to be spent on each one or to just make them better and worth the risk of chance.

[A.T.]

On the subject of jump packs and celestians - way back in 2nd you could take a jump pack bodyguard, albeit they were technically all seraphim as there was no distinct celestian rank.

[Dominoris]

 

And definitely improvements on acts of faith to either allow more points to be spent on each one or to just make them better and worth the risk of chance.

 

Divine Guidance: To hit rolls of 6 cause a mortal wound.

[Beams]

 

 

 

And definitely improvements on acts of faith to either allow more points to be spent on each one or to just make them better and worth the risk of chance.

Divine Guidance: To hit rolls of 6 cause a mortal wound.

We used to get Rending on Retributors as their AoF, so this is pretty similar. It also wouldn't be *that* amazing, since we would be limited to a single squad that can use it, meaning the most shots available we'd have would be a 5 stormbolter 5 Bolter squad, topping out at 30 shots in range.

 

The distribution isn't crazy, basically looking at 3-6 mortal wounds peak at 4 or 5, with a small chance to do less or more.

 

Add one mortal wound if you have a Cannoness near by.

 

Since it would be our only source of mortal wounds, and that's the strongest it can possibly be, it's not even really equivalent to a couple of psykers running around casting powers.

[taikishi]

If we're going for mortal wounds, it should be 6s to-wound, not to-hit. It would also benefit flamers at that point.

 

Honestly, is rather see the AoF system completely redone. Random chance to use + small benefit + once per Battle round (pass or fail) + requires a resource to use is way too many restrictions.

[Beams]

If we're going for mortal wounds, it should be 6s to-wound, not to-hit. It would also benefit flamers at that point.

Honestly, is rather see the AoF system completely redone. Random chance to use + small benefit + once per Battle round (pass or fail) + requires a resource to use is way too many restrictions.

I was actually going to edit my post to say the same thing -- otherwise Flamers and meltas are left out while stormbolters would get even better. Meltas are still kind of left out, but now it would make Flamers the best to use, since they have both the potential and higher averages of wound rolls then any other weapon.

[Dominoris]

If we're going for mortal wounds, it should be 6s to-wound, not to-hit.

Sorry about that.  You are right.  I have Age of Sigmar on my mind lately

[Atrus]

Vessels to go the way of the dodo. As long as its there, any hopes of AoF getting better are vain as long as Vessels exists.

Id rather roll for one or two squads a turn to get a good faith off, than have several squads get off lousy faith. Quality over quantity.

Id ve okay with our SoF stuff getting toned down to balance that out as AoF has been around longer and more tied to sisters feel and identity than what SoF is.

Better faith also makes the faith regenerating orders and warlord traits etc worthwhile.

 

Either equipment, strats or rules to shows sisters rock at flamers. Tone down the bolter obsession. (Id say its because theyre wasting too much time on all the various marine stuff theyre having to come uip with.)

 

Exorcists ignoring LoS. Same rules as now, just ignore LoS as well. Price bump would be fine. Just want an answer to the cheesy (lazy) play of plague burst crawlers and plenty of other LoS ignorers. Id be okay with this being a strat for Exorcists.

Exorcists to be taken in squadrons. I know its not fluffy at all but it frustrates me guard can have so many Russes on the table.

 

More anti psyker offence.

 

Hereticus Inquisitors to join and not break anything.

[ERJAK]

I want them to fix the AOF system to actually be a significant bonus when used. I want Vessels of the Emperor's will to either be removed or changed to 2 units+ the character, I want Celestine to get her Geminae back, or failing that get rules that don't just make her a Space Marine Jumppack captain with a fancy model and make the Geminae not totally useless.

 

The biggest thing though, is I want them to kill the 4++ bubble so blobbing all of our units in the center of the board and trudging slowly up-field in a deathball isn't the most efficient way to play the army.

[ERJAK]

 

 

meh

Geminae - 3W  2+sv, Lifewards change to regular bodyguard, <order> (must be same as celestine if in same army, detachments included), Swords +1s -3AP 2D, Pistols S4 -1AP 2D     Special rule: +1T and re-roll all saves when in 6" of Celestine

We were brainstorming this unit in the other Elite thread. Those are some pretty beastly buffs. They wouldn't be 50 points total anymore right?

 

How much would you point them with those stats?

 

As much as I hate uneven points costs probably something like 38-44 each including wargear.

 

their stats and gear didn't seem to really reflect to me they were resurrected martyr Canoness's blessed by the emperors light. They seemed like seraphim Celestine could resurrect. I figured a heavy assault role is something we lacked but terminators would be meh, plus another elite datasheet, and just not very sister-y. But some, what are essentially Daemonic Heralds for the Emperor? I could see those being T3 terminators in short supply.

 

extra buffs for being close to their patron Daemon Prince ofc.

 

I'll strap myself into the Penitent Engine for my heresy now.

 

Personally, I think with the changes listed there the geminae would actually be worth the 25 points each they started at...maybe, unless you're also talking about expanding them into a real unit. With only having two models in the unit, there's a hard cap on how much use you'll realistically be able to get out of them.

 

Remember, just having stats isn't good enough. You also have to be able to have an effective way to utilize those stats, especially for a unique warscroll that can only get a max of 2 models. The standard bodyguard rule is doggak for protecting a melee character because of the way charging works, their swords would still do a very small amount of damage,  same with the pistols. They still have an incredibly small amount of wounds so the value you get out of healing tears or even just wound bouncing is very limited and their combat effectiveness is also hurt as they'll die to a stiff breeze in CQC. They'll never get to benefit from AoFs without vessels and they don't get rerolls. You also have to keep in mind that protecting Celestine doesn't really matter anymore because of her dramatically lowered effectiveness, so the bodyguard rule is worth even less.

 

The core problem with the Geminae is that they're designed(terribly) to fill a role the army doesn't need anymore. 

[Dominoris]

 

 

The core problem with the Geminae is that they're designed(terribly) to fill a role the army doesn't need anymore. 

 

They are Tau drones that can be repaired under the right circumstances.  Other than ablative wounds for Celestine, I don't think they fill a roll.

 

I think back to their story and try to think of a way to represent that in the game but the first obvious fix concerns them being Canoness with jump packs.  Right away they need to give the twins Canoness stats and give Canoness jump packs.

 

 

So ... just thinking and wish listing here ...

Geminae Superia

M12,  WS2+, BS2+, S3, T3, W5, A4, Ld9, Sv3+

Bolt Pistol

Geminae Blade -- S+1, AP-3, D1

- May replace Bolt Pistol with an item from the Pistols list

Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith, Lead the Righteous, Rosarius, Lifeward

((45 for base, +20% base for Jump Pack(9), 8 points for blade ... 62 points each))

 

Boom.  Jump Pack Canoness if you want to use them that way.  Ignoring the story and looking at the models, game and roles, they should be Characters leading Seraphim units without having to be on Celestine's leash anyway.  The problems all seem to arise when you try to shoehorn the story into the rules. 

 

I like the models.  I really do.  But if they want to add the fluff to the game, Celestine should be able to resurrect ANY Sororitas model including (and especially) any Canoness that may have died whether the unit was destroyed or not. Geminae Superia do not really need to be in the game at all.