Diagramdude Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I really like the look of the Drop Force warlord trait and safe drop stratagem. Wondering if anyone has used these in real games and how do you find the detachment? Can the Scions live more than one turn and earn back their points? Is it worth using the safe drop strat to transport other Guard units around? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 A guy used it vs me the other day, lots of shots spamming volley guns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius0288 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Interested as well. I'm working an all Scions list for right now and would require coordination with quite a bit of back line support. Or maybe some other front line units so the one unit that drops out of the valkyrie isn't alone on turn 1... (Knights? Taurox Prime autocannon/missiles? And then the valkyrie overwatch CP seems legit but again, if that unit is by itself, I can't see them surviving long enough from the opponents shooting phase to even get charged. Maybe you would need multiple valkyries for this tactic to work? Good to know the volley gun has potential. Even those he's expensive, maybe Yarrick for reroll 1's in the overwatch as well? Fleet Officers definitely look good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phubar Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 As every unit in the Guard you have to have redundancy in order to work! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I've used it a couple of times and it does a good job of giving your scions jumping out of valkyries some needed punch. However, ask yourself if that was really a good army strategy, to begin with, and if making it a bit better is enough. I found that 12ish special weapons, even benefiting from 2s re-rollable to hit and 50/50 reroll to wound + other squad members' guns, just didn't hurt an enemy castle enough to crack it, and that is 3 squads, some officers, and 3 valkyries. A significant point investment. I'm a firm believer that they need something more. That can take a number of forms. Maybe they're a distraction carnifex and force the enemy to pay attention to them while your gunline army pounds away. Maybe there is a melee wave from allies following up. Heck, allies can use them for any number of benefits. One thing I did enjoy trying though was some IG melee. I took another two valkyries and put a psyker, priest, and crusaders in each. +2 invulnerable save, power sword wielding, nutters really messed up my enemy's plans. They often had to be focused on to really move and that bought the scions some time. Plus, since the crusaders were going to move forward anyway, they automatically screened the rest from melee, with good positioning. Don't forget that the safe drop strategem only requires that the valkyrie be part of a drop force, not the passengers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Has it been confirmed either way that passengers can disembark from the Valkyrie more than 9" away from enemies AND then perform a normal 6" move afterwards? I can't find a firm mention in any of the FAQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Has it been confirmed either way that passengers can disembark from the Valkyrie more than 9" away from enemies AND then perform a normal 6" move afterwards? I can't find a firm mention in any of the FAQs. I don't think it's in any FAQ, but it is pretty clear: the units disembark, even though the transport moved. It doesn't add a restriction to their disembarkation that says they cannot move afterwards, and regular disembarkation allows units to move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius0288 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Ya it's not in the FAQ, it's right in the grav chute rule on the valkyrie as far as I can tell. Also in the new stratagem? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I look at the safe drop stratagem as a way around 1st turn deepstrike. The question is whether or not it is worth the point cost to do it. Personally, I don't think that it is. There's a better trick than that. You can use tallarn ambush with a chimera filled with vets. I'd go meltaguns and an autocannon on them and ambush. Once you do that you can use Emperor's Blade specialist detachment. That strat allows for a squad to dismount and have full movement after a chimera has moved it's maximum distance. The chimera can also do overwatch for the squad with a 4+ roll. This won't get you a turn 1 deepstrike, but turn 2 can devastate your opponent. Personally I don't think that the drop force is all that good. I've played someone who tried it and he didn't have enough points on the table to do anything to my army. He barely crippled 1 Basilisk that my tech priest healed back to the top bracket in my turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 It works, but it is a huge pts investment as it requires 2+ fully packed Valkyries to really achieve anything. That means that basically you must designed your whole army around your MT force. Can but funny but tends to get quite repetitive. Also, the Valkyrie drop rile is less powerful than it may look: since you must keep over 9" when disembarking anyway, a good opponent will be able to limit your viable areas and, esp. if playing vs a horde, targeting characters will he hard to impossible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5243882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siax Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just to be sure. If I take this specialist detachment, throw in a field commander and then drop of as 5 tempests and a command squad with all plasma... that's like 6 plasma guns? Then with the +1 to hit, they will generate more shots on 5+ and Can't die to overcharge? I play a very fluffy meta, and I like the idea of a valkyrie with a Tempestor, a squad and a command squad jumping out and frying things :-) with the safe deployment strategy I don't have to worry about losing men when disembarking :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5262148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Yeah, that's how it works. Give your seargant a plasma pistol for one more overcharged shot. :) Also, the plus 1 last until the end of the turn, so you can charge them into something and maybe chip off a few chaff models. If they survive, get back into the Valk and rinse and repeat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5262157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Also, the Valkyrie drop rile is less powerful than it may look: since you must keep over 9" when disembarking anyway, a good opponent will be able to limit your viable areas and, esp. if playing vs a horde, targeting characters will he hard to impossible. It does allow you to move after the disembarkation, which is rare and useful. It's no guarantee that you can get to a preferred target, but it's still very good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5262175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I’m doing a slow-grow city fight campaign (6 players/2 teams/imperium v chaos) and my force is Scions. Won my first game (500 points) despite doing almost no damage and losing all but a handful of guys by playing the objectives. In the next phase (1000 points) I’m adding in a Valkyrie and an Armiger warglaive (distraction carnifex ). I’ll probably hold off in the drop force until I can get a double Battalion in there so I’m curious to hear peoples experiences and input. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5262385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 My drop force list had it first outing last night against my clubs strongest player, a tournament regular. We played the mission pack for a Tournament we are going to in march. He brought 6 Talos, cronos, 3 Ravagers, Raider, 2 venoms and a doom seer battalion. I ran Yarrick , 2 primes, 3 10 man squads with 4 plasma, vox, plasma pistol, fists 1Priest 2 astropaths 3 valkyries 1 Vulture Admech rusty 17+ Icarus Dunecrawler 2 smash captains and 15 scouts. First time I've beet him. Went second, lost one valkyrie. First time I've beaten this opponent. My T1 he scions wrecked the raider, Ravagers and farseer T1 in a massive alpha strike (including cc)... Then most of the MT detachment got minced by Talos. Then I played to the mission with his Talos out of position and his anti infantry severely weakened I was able to hold on and outscore. The close combat scion was a mistake, although they did finish off a ravager, it left them in range of the Talos... If I was more cautious I might have got an extra turn of shooting out of them or embark them and run away. The damage output is insane, hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's with 5's and 6's giving extra shots and rerolling all wounds. I rolled real hot with one squad and got 15 hits from 9 plasma shots. They crippled one flank. Super happy but will drop the priest and CC upgrades on the scions... Maybe squeeze in an Assassin instead. Can just squeeze 4 Bullgryn with some rejigging but would lose plasma. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5265779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZakalwe Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Had it used against me-I took out the Valk turn 1 and one of the scion squads inside died to a colossus bombard shot right afterwards, 10/10 would face again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5265947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 "The" Valk. You need 3 valks to make it work, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Depends on the list and how you're running your Scions. I ran it as part of an allied force for my Imperial knights at the LVO to great effect. The squad inside was just the basic 10 man squad with no special weapons. 36 Lasgun shots at half range with bonus shots on a 5+ works wonders, especially against chaos, and the Valkyrie allows for this to be done turn one instead of turn two or later. Plasma is able to hit their half range out of deepstrike and benefit less from the +1 due to lacking volume. Yes it can help but if you want to do that well probably best to run several Valkyries together instead of just one. Also the Harlequin FAQ has a question regarding a warlord trait they have that allows for someone to disembark after a vehicle moves. You can indeed move after getting out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 A single TDF Valkyrie makes sense in a T7/8 saturation list. the +1 to hit combined with storm troopers doctrine will hit 1.11 times for every shot, 1.33 time rerolling ones. Without the +1 it's 0.77 hits per shot. For plasma, the combination of the 1.33 hits per shot (I take Yarrick) and re-roll all wounds against vehichles and monsters (elimination order) is very nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The main issue I worry about (other than having to carry a bunch of Valkyries around) is the one Valk with the Tempestor Prime getting shot down turn one. Without the Warlord trait in action the whole thing is kinda worthless and you can't exactly hide a Valkyrie on most tables. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 A single TDF Valkyrie makes sense in a T7/8 saturation list. the +1 to hit combined with storm troopers doctrine will hit 1.11 times for every shot, 1.33 time rerolling ones. Without the +1 it's 0.77 hits per shot. For plasma, the combination of the 1.33 hits per shot (I take Yarrick) and re-roll all wounds against vehichles and monsters (elimination order) is very nasty. Yarrick is a good idea but wouldn't have worked for me since my list was already super tight on points. I'll have to play around with that combo next time I do a scion heavy list. The other advantage of the lasgun squad is people tend to underestimate how much they can do until it's far too late. Everyone knows plasma is dangerous though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 If your Drop Warlord Primes Valkyrie gets killed T1, he can move 6, advance D6, move move move himself 6 and his aura is 6. So even if he drops, he's protected as a charachter and can still make it to the other valks drop zones by moving 12+d6 and getting within 6". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5266914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Yes STTAB and in addition to that the dropping scions can drop anywhere along the path of the Valkyrie so you can drop a tail long enough to reach back to the aura. A 10man squad can drop in a >20" line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353429-tempestus-drop-force-experience-in-the-field/#findComment-5267038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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