Dos' Tournament Templars log

[Dosjetka]

On 10th March I'll be participating in a tournament here in Switzerland. The restrictions and guidelines are:

• 1500 points maximum;
• Maximum 3 Detachments;
• Mono-faction;
• A maximum of two "sub-factions" (i.e. Drukhari and Harlequins, Space Marines and Imperial Guard, etc.);
• No Forge World allowed;
• Three matches with three missions taken from the Eternal War list and the missions from CA2018;
• The armies must be painted and based.

My intention is to build, paint, and play with a Black Templar army hence why I've posted this thread here.

 

Note that there are a few restrictions that I'm imposing on myself, too:

• No Primaris;
• Emperor's Champion is an auto-include in any list;
• At least one Chaplain is an auto-include in any list.

Since this will be the first tournament I'll play in, my main objective is to not finish last. My secondary objective is to finish in the top 10 (out of a maximum of 16 players).

 

This thread will serve as log for me to both document my progress and thought processes and interact with the Black Templar community to receive feedback on aforementioned progress and thoughts.

 

For the moment I'm still playing around with list ideas so I'll post something shortly. In the meantime if anyone has any advice about tournaments in general or Black Templars in a tournament setting in particular, I'm all ears.

 

Cheers,

 

Dos

[Captain Idaho]

Theme is important to you as well as myself here so I'm guessing the list has to bear that in mind?

 

Have you looked at the BT specialist detachment? I think it is an auto include for a more competitive BT list. You can build a really powerful Captain using those rules.

[Dosjetka]

Aye, I'm trying to keep theme in mind and not let pure competitiveness get to my head which is why I went with Templars. Otherwise I would've gone with Ultramarines or Eldar.

 

I have looked at the detachment and will be including it in my list. It's too good of an opportunity to pass up, especially in more competitive play.

 

Now, after a bit of brainstorming, I've got a list that I think fits Black Templars quite well but still has a competitive edge.

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [45 PL, 8CP, 798pts] ++

**Chapter Selection**: Black Templars

+ HQ +

Chaplain [5 PL, 72pts]: Bolt pistol, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades

The Emperor's Champion [4 PL, 75pts]: Black Sword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades

+ Troops +

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 107pts]
. . 2x Initiate: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. . Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Missile launcher
. . Initiate w/Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Plasma gun
. . Sword Brother: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Frag & Krak grenades

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 97pts]
. . 2x Initiate: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. . Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter
. . Initiate w/Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Plasma gun
. . Sword Brother: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Frag & Krak grenades

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 88pts]
. . 2x Initiate: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. . Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter
. . Initiate w/Special Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Plasma gun
. . Sword Brother: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Crusader [16 PL, 288pts]: Hunter-killer missile, 2x Hurricane bolter, Multi-melta, Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [5 PL, 65pts]: Storm bolter

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [42 PL, , 702pts] ++

**Chapter Selection**: Black Templars

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Black Templars Sword Bretheren

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [6 PL, 102pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Master Swordsman, Master-crafted boltgun, Relic blade, The Crusader's Helm, Twin boltgun, Warlord

+ Elites +

Company Veterans [8 PL, 113pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist, Storm shield
. . Space Marine Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe, Storm shield
. . Space Marine Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe, Storm shield
. . Space Marine Veteran: Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe, Storm shield
. . Veteran Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist, Storm shield

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 145pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Ironclad Dreadnought [8 PL, 137pts]: Dreadnought chainfist, Hurricane bolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Meltagun

Terminator Assault Squad [12 PL, 205pts]: Teleport Homer
. . Terminator Sergeant
. . . . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. . 4x Terminator w/THSS: 4x Storm shield, 4x Thunder hammer

++ Total: [87 PL, 8CP, 1500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

The idea is to have the Company Veterans in the Drop Pod, the Chaplain, the Emperor's Champion and the Terminators in the LRC. Dreads and LRC rush up to meet the opponent head-on, Company Vets drop in wherever they're needed, and Crusader Squads fetch objectives in the back and mid field.

 

I'll try and get everything assembled and get a test game in against Necrons on Friday.

 

Thoughts and feedback are much appreciated.

[Medjugorje]

I never leave without a marshal. Believe me - noone expect such hard character like a Terminator Captain with Shield Eternal and Thunderhammer + Iron Resolve. Take the loyal 32 ( Guard Batallion ) + ...

 

 

like this?

 

Points: 1500
Powerlevel: 98
Relics 3

CP-Abzug: -5
Commandpoints : 9

Cadian: Battalion Detachment - 180 Punkte (PL 15)
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Company Commander
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

Company Commander
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte (PL 3)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte (PL 3)

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 734 Punkte (PL 46) Swortd Brethren Detachment
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Captain, Jump Pack
+ Teeth of Terra, Storm shield  -> 10 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 6) (Secound Warlord - Swortmaster)

1 Lieutenant, 1 x Master-crafted boltgun, 1 x Chainsword  - - - > 63 Punkte (PL 4)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Crusader Squad
10 Initiates, 8 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol, Plasma gun, 10 Neophytes, 10 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
+ Sword Brother, 1 x Thunder hammer, 1 x Combi-plasma  -> 27 Pkt.  - - - > 278 Punkte (PL 15)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun, 5 x Camo cloak
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 70 Punkte (PL 4)

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

***************  1 Elite ***************  
5 Terminators, 5 x Storm bolter, 4 x Power fist  - - - > 165 Punkte (PL 13)

Black Templars: Vanguard Detachment - 586 Punkte (PL 37)
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Master in Terminator Armour [WARLORD]
+ The Shield Eternal, Thunder hammer  -> 31 Pkt.
+ Warlordtrait: Iron Resolve (SM)  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 126 Punkte (PL 7)

Chaplain, Jump Pack
+ The Crusader's Helm, Bolt pistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 90 Punkte (PL 6)

***************  4 Elite ***************  
3 Cenobyte Servitors  - - - > 6 Punkte (PL 1)

Company Ancient
+ Standard of the Emperor Ascendant, Bolt pistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 63 Punkte (PL 4)

Apothecary
+ Chainsword, Bolt pistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 3)

Vanguard Veteran Squad
10 Veterans, 6 x Chainsword, 6 x Storm shield, 3 x Chainsword, 3 x Thunder hammer, Jump packs
+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 246 Punkte (PL 16)

 

EDIT: I see, i forget the Emperors champion.
 

[bolvar]

I'd swap 2 TH&SS and get dual LC on 2 terminators. Also i'd hand over a grav pistol or a combi-something to the chaplain.

 

 

And personally, I think you have too few models, just 20 power armor marines + 2 characters, one biker and 5 terminators sounds too few in a 1500 game. That might be just by how I usually play, with at least 2 10-man crusader squad (rhinos, drop pods or LRC for transport at least 1 squad) and another 5-6 man for our base objective, with or withouth razorback (here's my formula: 20 marines at 500 points, +10 per 500 points onward).

 

I'd say to grab some more crusaders, I feel that if you encounter a swarm army (thinking about 70+ models, let's say orks, nids...) you'll struggle to thin them enough to not overrun you.

[Medjugorje]

5x 2+

20x 3+

20x 4+

33x 5+

and 8 characters

in my list are quite a lot... (and no big targets for the big guns of a castellan)

[Captain Idaho]

It's a nice list in my view. I like the Crusader alongside the Contemptor and Ironclad tag team. Tough to choose what to target.

 

I'm not experienced with the Crusader's Helm, but I'm not sure it's needed on the Captain.

 

Would you consider a different Relic on him? The Primarch's Wrath could be funny - he's getting 8 shots a turn, 4 of which are S5 and D2!

 

Overall I like the army a lot. Plenty of firepower and can also hurt enemies up front.

[Dosjetka]

Medjugorje: Cheers for the feedback and list. Unfortunately that's too many models to paint in a short time frame (I'm a slow painter). However the fact that I have too few models, as bolvar has suggested, has crossed my mind. And the point about their not being any clear target for a Castellan is a good point. I'll play a few test games with the list I posted and then see what changes I'll make.

 

bolvar: Why do you think the Terminator Squad needs twin LC instead of THSS on two models? Regarding the comment about too few models, I'll be playing against an Ork friend of mine to get ready for the tournament, so I'll be able to see just how well/badly the list does against a swarm-type list. Hopefully it doesn't do too badly and I can get away with not having too many models to built/paint. :D

 

Idaho: Cheers. The Crusader's Helm extends whatever aura he has by an extra 3", giving him a 9" re-roll 1s to-hit aura. I'm considering swapping him for a jump pack Captain* with thunder hammer, storm bolter (can't afford anything more expensive), and the Master Swordsman warlord trait from Vigilus (+1 attacks and natural rolls to-hit of 6 count as two hits instead of one) though I'm not sure which relic would suit him best. Thoughts about the proposed change and/or the relic I could field the jump pack Captain with?

 

*note that if I do this, I have to replace the two power fists in my Veteran Squad with power axes and lose the HKM on the LRC.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I would be tempted to swap the crusader for a Stormraven, so you can carry the Ironclad directly across the board and drop it where its most needed. They're also a lot harder to bog down, seeing as typical hoard armies can't lock them in melee. It would take some point shuffling though, and a Stormraven will attract even more firepower than your Crusader already does. Food for thought, I suppose.

 

Also, in my experience, dropping melee vets out of a pod is generally less efficient than just teleporting in Cataphractii or assault terminators. Both vets and terminators risk getting trapped outside of melee when they fail the 9, but the terminators have less profile than the drop pod + surrounding models, which can be hard to maneuver into a gap in your enemies screen. If you want to drop in troupes aggressively, consider making them gun troupes instead.

 

At least until we get a 3d6+1 charge strat like some other armies...Some day....Some, day.

[Captain Idaho]

Master Swordsman is an amazing Warlord Trait. Pretty much any weapon you use will enjoy it.

 

If I was to stick to the Bike Captain the keep the Relic Blade and add the Primarch's Wrath over the Crusader's Helm. The extra 3" won't likely make a difference since you'll be charging up the field with the Chaplain etc.

 

The Jump Pack is a difficult one. I know Thunder Hammers are all the range but really I like a good sword! Then the question is - do you want to carve through troops with the Teeth of Terra?

 

I normally go Relic Blade as the jack of all trades choice. I like it because it does the same damage as a power fist, is much cheaper than a Thunder Hammer and yet has solid AP of a Power Sword, whilst still wounding on a 3+.

 

Teeth of Terra is very Dorn, mind. ;)

[Dosjetka]

Martial Valkenhayn: Cheers for popping by. :tu: I'll be working on a Storm Raven for my Crusade in the future but I won't be able to get it done in time as I'd like to extend the hull by a few inches. So the Storm Raven, despite being something I had considered, is not an option for this list.

Regarding the Vets and Drop Pod you raise some good points. The issue with Terminators is that they don't benefit from the SWORD BRETHREN Stratagems which makes the Company Veterans worth taking. That said, I'll see how the Veterans perform and then tweak as needed. I may just end up dumping them in a Rhino if the Drop Pod turns out to be a liability.

 

Idaho: The thing with the Crusader's Helm is it allows me to spread out my forces a bit more rather than have them all within 6". It may not seem like that much but having those extra 3" all around is nice and I think I prefer having more room to improve the performance of other models over making the Captain a bit more of a threat in shooting.

Regarding weapons and such, the relic blade is good and I like it because it can be a sword, which meshes well with the name of the Warlord Trait. However the thunder hammer with flat 3 damage is not to be underestimated and is a powerful (if a tad expensive) option. I'll try out the relic blade and see how it goes. In any case thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. :tu:

Last but not least, after a bit more thought I think I'll stick with the Biker Captain, simply because T5 and +1W makes him that much more survivable. If I ever end up with enough points for a Smash Marshal though, I'll be sure to add one. He'll be very useful againts Knights and (Daemon) Primarchs.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I get tempted by the Thunder Hammer Captain myself.

[Dosjetka]

I've never tried him for myself but he seems to be a decent counter to Imperial Knights and other such big models that we'd have difficulty countering otherwise. That said, I haven't seen anyone on the list of participants with a pure IK army so I *should* be safe... unless they put another army as their main faction and are still bringing a handful of the stompy death robots... :ermm:

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The bike Martial is probably the best deal for his points. For extra survivability he can be given the Armor Indomitus. For extra killy he can be given the Teeth of Terra. The Relic Blade is probably the best option otherwise, as -1 weapons like Thunder Hammers can't use our new Warlord trait. Also, if you do wind up taking a Smash Martial, my personal favorite is a cataphractii Martial with combi-melta and thunder hammer (Mine is named Martial Rathgar, and leads a vanguard of Terminators called the Emperor's Wrath.). He's quite a few points, and can't move around as much once he hits the field, but I've one shot knights with him and Honor the Chapter.

 

As for Sword Brothers vs Terminators, I didn't mean to suggest you should not take the Sword Brothers. I meant if you want melee sword brothers, swapping places with them and the Terminators will let you save points. Terminators can stilld eeps trike in, Sword Brothers can go into the Crusader. The Terminators will also have a chance to fire once they land, taking advantage of the new Beta rule, and don't have to shoot at the nearest thing within 12. So you can deep strike them in, give fire support by firing at an enemy group 23 inches away, then attempt the charge against a 9 inch enemy. If you can swing a terminator Chaplain or Captain, and give them the Crusader's Helm, your chargign brothers will still get rerolls even if the character doesn't make the charge with them. That is a strat I like using, but usually with two squads of Terminators and a Captain, not 1, and you likely won't have the points for that. Also, taking company vets with Storm Bolters and shields still gives you the ability to buff them to a unit of 5 with 16 chainsword strength attacks that reroll wounds. For their size that's pretty good melee capability. And combining their bodyguard ability with the 5+ feel no pain can help to keep a supporting character alive.

 

Either way, it looks like you have the basic outline of what you want to do down. Your practice fights will give you a lot of insight into what to do from here. My only real warning is to remember that we are still playing Marines, who are not the tough army they used to be. Until their Elite status is returned to them by some means, every battle will be somewhat up hill. However, we are Templars, and we know not the meaning of the word Defeat! Go forth with zeal!

[Dosjetka]

Cheers for the continued feedback and ideas, MV. :tu:

 

If I notice that I have issues with Knights or that their presence will be prevalent, I'll be sure to consider taking a Captain with other wargear options.

 

Regarding the Sword Brethren and Terminators I had never thought of switching their places and saving points that way: good catch! That frees up 65 points for something else. I'll see what I'll add. However, the Terminators are Assault Terminators so no shooting for them which I'm, for the moment at least, fine with as a 3+ inv and S8 3D attacks will be necessary with things like Wraiths running around the table. Also not sure about changing the wargear loadout on the Company Vets but we'll see. :)

[Captain Idaho]

Note the Warlord Trait works on unmodified rolls of a 6 so a Thunder Hammer Captain still benefits. However, I still prefer the cheaper Relic Blade as it hits on 2s and still does decent enough damage.

[Medjugorje]

already played your tournament?