Infiltrators... Sleeper Hit?

[Charlo]

No pun intended ;)

 

So with the drop in points, built in 'over 9"' deep strike and the possibility for an absurd number of dice to be rolled, infiltrators seem to be a really solid unit now.

 

Just less than 145pts gets you 8 bodies to throw around.

 

The new Manipulus could work in tandem too, advancing with Skitarii to be ready to drop his +1" move/ charge aura on them when they appear.

 

They just seem to hold a pretty unique role in Ad Mech now and do it rather cheaply.

 

Who do my bro-bots think?

[MajorNese]

I've tried them two times recently. Drop 10 of them near Carl, pop Wrath of Mars, and they will annihilate smaller elite units or vehicles with a single volley by sheer number of mortal wounds. Except for that, they throw out a nice enough number of shots to whittle down hordes, and stack up a lot of wounds in CC. They are still extremely fragile, mine only survived if they took out anything in range that might have shot back.

 

With the manipulus, the main advantage they have is that they only require a charge roll of 8, which is still a considerable bonus. Movement value and advance roll are irrelevant when deep striking. Manipulus range buff might come handy when deep striking is hindered by bubblewrap or terrain - +3" might mean reaching another unit, or having more models in range to shoot. As the manipulus may not move where needed (unlike the movement buff), it requires a bit of planning though.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have always been a fan of Infiltrators since they give us some sort of mobility and I have always been pleased with the damage output.

The extra inch to charge something (Manipulus) after deepstriking is amazing, never thought of that.

[Heliomanes]

I really like them with their updated point cost. What do you think would be the optimal way to use them in a competitive environment? 2 groups of 10? Or 3? Obviously with Mars for the stratagem, but I also think they get a lot out of being paired with an aggressive Knight detachment, since they can support each other, and the Knights draw a lot of attention from the fragile infiltrators.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I really like them with their updated point cost. What do you think would be the optimal way to use them in a competitive environment? 2 groups of 10? Or 3? Obviously with Mars for the stratagem, but I also think they get a lot out of being paired with an aggressive Knight detachment, since they can support each other, and the Knights draw a lot of attention from the fragile infiltrators.

 

I think 1 unit of 10 is enoug. You can not use Wraith or Mars more than once per turn and normally you want it on your Dakka Bots. A unit of 10 gives you some options in case something is out of LoS or the Bots are tied up.

 

And with Knights I am not sure whether they draw attention away from the Infiltrators. Every gun that is not strong enough to damage the Knights will target the softer units, so you opponent will still shoot alle his Las and Melta against the Knights and all Bolters against the Infiltrators.

[MajorNese]

One squad of 10 should be enough IMO. You can only pop Wrath of Mars and +1 to hit in CC for one unit per turn - more than one unit, and the output diminishes a lot. Maybe a smaller unit or two to deep strike onto an objective, but never another squad of 10.

 

For one full squad, you could buy 6 breachers - with Acquisiton at all costs, those provide a lot more firepower and resilience on backfield/center objectives, instead of dying to bolters, leaving the knights free to charge. Or 25 rangers, just flooding the board with cheaper, better, longer-ranged bolters.

 

And I really doubt that a knight could considerably distract from infiltrators, as their target audience could not be further apart. Unless a knight is down to 1-2 wounds, I'd fire every bolter/lasgun at T3 4+ instead of T8 3+. The only synergy would be that infiltrators can pop up next to knights, so the local concentration of forces might clear that area in a less than expected way.

[Heliomanes]

I think we have different ideas on how to use them, then. Which is fine, of course. I imagined deep striking 1 unit per turn, from turn 2 onwards - using them to clear and claim objectives when they've put their load of mortal wounds into a big target. It shores up one of the big weaknesses of Admech in general, claiming and contesting objectives, which has been a big reason why people moved away from the Cawlbot castle when playing ITC and Nova rules.

Admech do the whole castle thing well enough already, and overly defensive lists always lose when these kinds of objectives are in play. That's where I see the utility for the infiltrators. Not as support for the old castle, but a potential primary source of WoM. Not as a compliment to (and, as you've said, WoM-rival) to the robots, but the potential backbone of a more aggressive, flexible and mobile kind of list entirely. That's why I like knights gallant, dragoons and balistarii with them. Threat overload, redundancy und so weiter. If you've been charged by two knights gallant, then experience suggests that you aren't just shooting them with your lascannons.

[Prot]

Since 8th I've always used at least 5, and 10 is nice if I have the points, but on 32mm's the footprint gets a little large for what I want to do.  I seem to find a good comfort zone with about 7-8. It feels to me like diminishing returns after that. So that's usually my sweet spot. But I do love the diversity of the squad. They have a LOT of function in a list that is mobility challenged, and don't require any fancy drills to exercise that option.

[MajorNese]

The point of having multiple deep strikers for one per turn or to contest several areas is fine, I've used it quite often. But at 2 or 3 full squads, they do rack up an awful lot of points, and start losing models to morale, which is why I keep the second and third squad down to min-size. In that case, Lucius might even be useful, to drop any desired unit where it needs to be, not just the fragile infiltrators. I've had great success dropping 3 full plasma vanguard squads in the midfield - small enough to land in cover and survive, enough range to strike at hard targets and chaff at the same time, ObSec and (with data tether and 1CP) hit flyers on a 2+. In your case, a Lucius Manipulus could even Solar Flare forwards to increase charge range.

 

Threat overload, redundancy und so weiter.

Stimmt schon, the backfield units hardly keep up the pressure like additional frontline units do, or lock up stuff in CC. But except for the WoM bomb, I always used infiltrators as skirmishers - clear remote areas and claim their objectives against other skirmishers, which doesn't require a full squad. Either you cleared the area enough and 5 infiltrators are enough to survive (or small enough to be hidden), or 10 will start to evaporate anyway if some hard hitters remain. There is no points discount for larger units, which is why I prefer MSU where they are not affected by strats.

[Heliomanes]

I agree with you there, mate. Good call on pairing it with a Lucius detachment. I was thinking about going Stygies with the secondary detachment (Mars as primary in this case, because of WoM) to infiltrate a large distraction unit of dragoons to keep the opponent occupied turn 1.

[Charlo]

Thanks guys - great insight here!

 

It seems like I might need to consider a unit of 7-8 to supplement my Mars forces and apply some forward pressure!

[DanPesci]

Sneaky cyborgs with electro beat sticks and uzis...whats not to like :)

 

I run 3 units of 5x infiltrators in my stygies list. 

 

They're cheap enough and super handy for grabbing objectives later on, or screen clearing when needed. If they drop in en-mass then 75 shots (even at t3) can be pretty brutal. And at least one should make a charge off to  tie something up. Poppin the reroll 1 canticle the turn they are coming in helps if theyre not near a dominus too.

[brother_b]

I have 10 infiltrators, will probably pick up the manipulus so will have 15. I considered going a 10-cyborg unit of infiltrators, and another 5 unit. I also considered the carbine and powersword for some anti MEQ units.

 

Does anybody run the carbine/power sword? If so, what have the results been?

[Mr. Funktastic]

Is it still worth using Infiltrators if they're not Mars? Thinking about adding some to my Ryza list if I eventually get the Manipulus box and probably running a squad of 7-8. Might be a good source of anti-horde along with Kastelans and at least they're still rerolling 1's to wound in combat as Ryza so at least the dogma's not wasted.

[Prot]

Is it still worth using Infiltrators if they're not Mars? Thinking about adding some to my Ryza list if I eventually get the Manipulus box and probably running a squad of 7-8. Might be a good source of anti-horde along with Kastelans and at least they're still rerolling 1's to wound in combat as Ryza so at least the dogma's not wasted.

I think even if you only play semi competitively, you have to consider them. Especially if you don’t use drills or allied deep strikers.

 

As mentioned they are paper, but even 5 can put out 25 pistol shots. I often don’t use wrath of mars on them.

 

There are plenty of situations I think you can benefit as any Forgeworld with even a minimal harassment squad. It also Chang’s the way your opponent thinks. Perhaps he’s guarding Lootas with Grots and you want to seriously thin them out before firing up you Kastelans. Or perhaps it’s as simple as your opponent keeping cheap chaff troops on deep objectives because you normally can’t get there. Or it could be something like Dark Reapers hiding in a corner.

 

I often want to cut them from my list, but I often regret it as I don’t have drills, or play allies.

[MajorNese]

Considering how cheap they got now, at least a small squad is auto-include. Even without Mars strat, they will remove smaller objective campers, take objectives, support other CC units (like dragoons or knights) or tie up units. Even take back objectives where your previous units were killed, because that can happen until turn 3.

 

These guys are versatile, if squishy. Use them as opportunists, and by turn 3 you will have found a use for them. The full 10 man squads are only truly useful to Mars IMO, as long as you could take another small unit instead - less problems with morale, more areas to contest, more charges to declare, less problems with spacing, easier to hide, for the exact same spent points as before.

 

It only gets competition in its role when playing Lucius, as literally any unit can deep strike too.

[DanPesci]

I have 10 infiltrators, will probably pick up the manipulus so will have 15. I considered going a 10-cyborg unit of infiltrators, and another 5 unit. I also considered the carbine and powersword for some anti MEQ units.

 

Does anybody run the carbine/power sword? If so, what have the results been?

 

Last game i ran one of my 3 infiltrator squads with carbine/swords. They were ok and could drop in slightly further away due to lack of space and still be in range. Their damage output with shooting is almost identical - 3 shots T4 rather than 5 shots T3

 

If running mars...go flechette blasters though as the extra shots are better when using wrath of mars.

 

Its a similar situation with the powerswords...when the wounds go through they hurt more against TEQ/MEQ due to the AP, but you'lll get less hits/wounds going through to begin with than with the taser goads (only S4 instead of S6, no exploding 6s to hit)

 

Also, the taser goad setup can benefit better from protector doctrines as you are more likely to be getting those extra hits from exploding 6s. They also tend be be slightly better for wounding T6/7 vehicles

 

My head says to just go 3 units with goads/blasters and just play for weight of wounds, but rule of cool/messing with opponents head says to have 1 with powerswords.

[MajorNese]

Its a similar situation with the powerswords...when the wounds go through they hurt more against TEQ/MEQ due to the AP, but you'lll get less hits/wounds going through to begin with than with the taser goads (only S4 instead of S6, no exploding 6s to hit)

 

Also, the taser goad setup can benefit better from protector doctrines as you are more likely to be getting those extra hits from exploding 6s.

Swords at least profit from the +1S canticle, which is mostly useless otherwise. In that case, they'll go through MEQ a lot easier. So they may be situational, but might still be useful when using the stratagems on a larger taser unit. Not needing any CPs for near-peak performance is IMO the important part, which is why my secondary, smaller units will get swords.