Space marines as allies

[Commissar potato]

Don’t know whether this is a topic for the space marine or imperial guard threads but I was wondering what people’s thoughts are on allying space marines with imperial guard. Specifically blood angels. I don’t need anything to cheesy just like an 1000 point deepstrike heavy detachment. Anyway, do you think this could work?

[rcoon]

If you're thinking Smash Captains, it could certainly work. I feel like IG can do whatever a BA detachment can do but better. An Emperor's Wrath Artillery detachment will do what a smash captain does from several feet away at a similar CP cost.

[HallofStovokor]

Giving up half of your points for Space Marines doesn't seem like the optimal build. Every point you spend on allies is a point you can't spend on the guard. Smash Captain is still a thing, but it's effectiveness was reduced in Big FAQ2.

 

Jump packs no longer allow you to charge past screening units. If you're trying to get a good melee unit, I suggest bullgryns with mauls. If you want units with BS 3+ for shooting, spend the points on tank commanders and veterans. Space Marines have the new bolter discipline rule, but it's still not particularly good on anything other than vehicles.

 

Allies are still good for the guard, but they need to have a specific role that guard units can't do better. Otherwise, you're wasting points on a secondary army that lacks efficiency.

[duz_]

From a competitive stand point? Id probably just stick to full guard

 

 

From a narrative perspective a patrol or specialized detachment would be thematic

[Commissar potato]

Yeah, I think you guys are right. It definitely won’t get me far in competitive but it would be a pretty cool addition! (Also, I get to take a break from Zandri Dust and castellan green:) )

[The Pounder]

I’m doing this with my next project.

 

I couldn’t decide on which faction to do next so I decided to build an Imperial Crusade.

My idea is to eventually have a small element of each Imperial type.

To start though it’ll be DKOK and Black Templars.

 

I’m not really concerned with efficiency I just think it’ll look cool.

[WarriorFish]

Agreed, Marines - and elite armies in general - just aren't that good currently so with the ball in horde's court in 8th you won't gain a great deal. BA are good in combat though so would make a nice counter-assault element for your Guard. For Rule of Cool of course you need no justification

[domsto]

I tried it multiple times to ally Space Marines in.

A Guard Gunline with a Fast moving Ravenwing biker gang for example.

And every time i had the Felling i hindered myself by doing so.

[Wassa]

I think the only thing that we could do with are:

-something to lock an enemy unit into close combat so they can't shoot back at us, while we shoot the rest of them.

-sometime to grab distant objectives and get linebreaker.

 

I toy with a Blood Angels or Custodes Detachment, but they do cost a lot of points.

Scions may be cheaper for this role.

[MARK0SIAN]

Every time I’ve allied space marines with guard it’s felt like every single point I spent on marines would’ve been better spent on a guard unit, even allowing for the things space marines can (theoretically) do that Guard can’t.

 

I have however allied Custodes, Sisters and knights and not felt that way so they could possibly be an alternative for you.

[NatBrannigan]

Enjoy playing with my Guard and Wolves combined for a change, nice to be able to hold an objective without throwing wave after wave of my own men at it. Despite my name here I sometimes get a bit sad seeing my brave lads massacred defending a pile of crates or conveniently positioned banner.

 

Game wise it's fun, won't make your army stronger and isn't going to lose you any friends (unlike say adding 32 Guard to a Knight army for.... thematic... reasons).

 

Aesthetically I'd recommend going for Primaris Marines. They look excellent in amongst Guard Squads.

[HallofStovokor]

I played a 4000 point team game. 2v2 with each faction bringing 2000 points. My partner was a space wolf. We did extremely well. Guard are very good at ranged combat and space wolves are only good at melee. Without needing to hamstring my list to accommodate space marines, we killed half of our opponents armies by turn 2. In turn 3, the space wolves reached melee and my emperors wrath detachment began suppressing overwatch. He wrecked the initial combat up front, while my big guns destroyed the enemy heavy support. By the end of turn 4, my infantry and lord commissar had made it into the fray with the Ork warlord. Bamn, the game was conceded.

[tychobi]

Two things blood angels can give you that guard cannot are slam captains and scouts. Slam captains are the gold standard of versatile melee power and scouts take midfield during deployment. Death co and lemartes really up the flavor and price tag but can change the feel of your army completely. Avoid reliance on auras to buff your melee units. 6' is not enough for dynamic combat. Good luck!

[HallofStovokor]

Two things blood angels can give you that guard cannot are slam captains and scouts. Slam captains are the gold standard of versatile melee power and scouts take midfield during deployment. Death co and lemartes really up the flavor and price tag but can change the feel of your army completely. Avoid reliance on auras to buff your melee units. 6' is not enough for dynamic combat. Good luck!

The guard does have a scout equivalent. They're called ratlings. In some ways they're better than scout marines, in other ways, they're worse. They all have sniper rifles and a 3+ BS, which is on par with scouts. They're hot garbage in melee, which is worse than scouts. And they can kite an enemy by shooting and scampering away 5" every turn. This gives them the ability to move 10" every turn, which is objectively better than scout marines.

 

You're right that we don't have smash captains, but we do have bullgryns and artillery. You can now spend 1 cp to let a basilisk stop enemy overwatch to get a squad of bullgryns into close combat. Bullgryns in close combat are more deadly than 3 smash captains. In a fight between the two different forces, bullgryns will win that fight 8 out of 10 times. 5 bullgryns 2 with slab shields 3 with brute shields and all with mauls, are likely to inflict 14 wounds in close combat.

[tychobi]

 

Two things blood angels can give you that guard cannot are slam captains and scouts. Slam captains are the gold standard of versatile melee power and scouts take midfield during deployment. Death co and lemartes really up the flavor and price tag but can change the feel of your army completely. Avoid reliance on auras to buff your melee units. 6' is not enough for dynamic combat. Good luck!

The guard does have a scout equivalent. They're called ratlings. In some ways they're better than scout marines, in other ways, they're worse. They all have sniper rifles and a 3+ BS, which is on par with scouts. They're hot garbage in melee, which is worse than scouts. And they can kite an enemy by shooting and scampering away 5" every turn. This gives them the ability to move 10" every turn, which is objectively better than scout marines.

 

You're right that we don't have smash captains, but we do have bullgryns and artillery. You can now spend 1 cp to let a basilisk stop enemy overwatch to get a squad of bullgryns into close combat. Bullgryns in close combat are more deadly than 3 smash captains. In a fight between the two different forces, bullgryns will win that fight 8 out of 10 times. 5 bullgryns 2 with slab shields 3 with brute shields and all with mauls, are likely to inflict 14 wounds in close combat.

Like you say Ratlings are terrible at holding ground. . .kinda what the scouts are for. Slam capt is where you need him when you need him. Bullgrins are amazing but a very different unit. I think bullgrin are a better buy than death co or sang guard but slam capt offer something very different. I think my suggestions are sound.

[Wassa]

Problem with Bullgryns is getting them close in the first place.

You'll have to buy a Chimera/Valkyrie and even those can only transport 3/4 at a time.