BrainFireBob Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 You can even have "He's coming here. Unleash the World Eaters." "How many, lord?" "Did you not hear me? Sigismund is coming. ALL THE WORLD EATERS. Continue firing on the palace!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I believe Sig's role at the Siege was important from both battlefield and character development perspectives. Sig was a huge morale booster for the embattled loyalists, and his ability to decapitate enemy leadership was a force multiplier in the defenders' favor. As the first captain of the largest defending legion and the premier Imperial hero who immortalised his legend at the Siege, I don't think his role should be downplayed. Furthermore, I think the Siege should highlight why Sig became a living symbol of the Imperium and why his death a thousand years later had such symbolic significance. Sig has been disowned by Dorn, and it feels like he's a character who is half way through his character arc. I think the Siege would be an excellent opportunity to explore him. These all are just assumptions, we know nothing at this point wht Siege will look like. Seriously. And he's NOT a symbol of the Imperium or a premier imperial hero and his death thousand years later has NO symbolic significance. You're pushing it to far and it's painful to read. I didn't realize how much memastic Sigismund is and how rampant his fanboism runs. I think in the future I'll avoid threads with "Sigismund" in the name lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Really though, it'll be a struggle to do a Sigismund POV strand which melds action and character work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I found this thread largely by accident, but it is fortuitous in some ways, as what i have below is relevant.A long time ago, when GW released the very first Emperor's Champion Model (GW's 25 I think?) There was a pull out cover for White Dwarf, it had a page on designing/scuplting and painting the model itself and a page of fluff about Sigismund. I very much doubt all of it is still canon, as so much has changed since that time, 15 years ago, before the series even began, (for instance, it's pre-Imperial Truth as a fluff concept!) but I thought you may appreciate it: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 hope it doesn't come out reading too "fanfic" part of the advantage of the siege being considered a new series, is that BL have the opportunity to build characters and relationships (that have not seen enough love during the HH) to a satisfactory conclusion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Blood Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I believe Sig's role at the Siege was important from both battlefield and character development perspectives. Sig was a huge morale booster for the embattled loyalists, and his ability to decapitate enemy leadership was a force multiplier in the defenders' favor. As the first captain of the largest defending legion and the premier Imperial hero who immortalised his legend at the Siege, I don't think his role should be downplayed. Furthermore, I think the Siege should highlight why Sig became a living symbol of the Imperium and why his death a thousand years later had such symbolic significance. Sig has been disowned by Dorn, and it feels like he's a character who is half way through his character arc. I think the Siege would be an excellent opportunity to explore him. These all are just assumptions, we know nothing at this point wht Siege will look like. Seriously. And he's NOT a symbol of the Imperium or a premier imperial hero and his death thousand years later has NO symbolic significance. You're pushing it to far and it's painful to read. I didn't realize how much memastic Sigismund is and how rampant his fanboism runs. I think in the future I'll avoid threads with "Sigismund" in the name lol. I disagree. We’re talking about the man who Abbadon of all people had an insane amount of respect for, as did his biggest baddest commanders. Can’t see how he’s not a premier imperial hero either? He was already a legend during the Great Crusade. Other legends sought him out to test their worth against him. Lastly, you’re just coming across as a bit of a dick by calling it ‘rampant fanboyism’. You evidently don’t seem to care much about Sigismund, but the wider community do see it as one of the big parts of the Siege, along with Sanguinius last stand at the Eternity Gate, the Khan taking the Lions Gate spaceport. Even the authors of the series are excited about Sigismunds part. So yeah, don’t like it, fair enough, but whether you like it or not, it’s a feature that’s going to be in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 @ rendingon+1 Yeah...I'll just say those "assumptions" are based on established lore, perhaps not verbatim, but they're either in the lore or would logically flow from it He'a first captain of the IF, that's not an assumption. The IF are relatively unscathed and have been mass-recruiting, hence larger than the more battered BA (Signus, Ruinstorm) and WS (four-year campaign), who have had less time to pump up their numbers. He kills a bunch of Traitor champions and his legend grows at the Siege, that's not an assumption Him killing a bunch of Traitor champions (which would likely include a number od Traitor commanders...since in 40K, SM commanders also tend to be the better fighters) would help out the defenders significantly, again, that's not really an assumption Dorn disowns him for his faith, that's not an assumption In Black Legion, Sigismund's death at Abaddon's hands is packed with symbolic punch. He's a great, if not the greatest, Imperial hero at the time, and a significnant part of that greatness was earned at the Siege. This doesn't seem like a stretch at all. @ DarkChaplain "What's being speculated here already seems to gratuitous and like, honestly, fanwank of the worst kind." Seems quite tame to me really... The Khârn rumour has been around for ages. Maybe he kills Tybalt Marr and/or maims Malcharion? That's hardly fanwank IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 there must be a whole bunch of champs we haven't met yet...right? malcharion (in the HH at least), xorumai khan, lethandrus the templar, and raguel the sufferer. which implies to me there are more than listed so far. malcharion and sigs don't have to meet up. we just draw that relationship because we don't know all the players i mean, i can barely find my partner if we get separated at a shopping mall... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Yeah mc is on the money. Having all the named characters run into each other will just make the setting feel small at a time where it should feel at its largest, in what is effectively the greatest battle of all time. There are so many characters that already have to run into each other at the Siege, and I'd rather not add to that list. 9 years of constant war have forged all kinds of heroes and villains. Let's meet some of them. In any case, with French on the case, I know Sigismund is going to get his time in the limelight. My favourite Sigismund scene is that moment in Praetorian of Dorn where he and his brothers walk into an ambush - the first scene ends with the eye lenses of the AL Lernaean Terminators glowing as they open fire - and then the second scene abruptly opens with Siggy covered in gore and the Alpha Legion lying minced on the floor. That sort of thing conveys his lethality to me better than throwing him a B-list of whatever traitors are available. The only A-list that seems appropriate is (and has been noted constantly) Khârn because of their preexisting relationship. What would killing Sorot Tchure prove (even if he somehow left Kor Phaeron and got to Terra)? Or Tybalt Marr? None of them are famed fighters of similar renown to Sigismund. The only Traitors that are would be Abaddon, Eidolon, Khârn, and Sevatar, and three of those are not an option. If French/other authors make the new champions/daemon princes (etc) look sufficiently powerful and deadly, their demise at the Templar's hands will still add to his legend. Having many previously unknown warp-fuelled leaders try to face Sigismund and inevitably fail with perhaps one big fish (Khârn?) feels like the way to go to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 The Siege of Terra is planned to be an eight book series, so if the book covering Sig's role as Emp's Champ is, say, book 5 or 6...yeah, the authours would certainly have room to introduce and build up some Traitor champs. Also, about Malcharion...he managed to lay low three loyalist champs, but it seems to me that NL would also tend to avoid duels as a waste of time (not that they'd necessarily be bad at it). Would be interesting to know more about his story at the Siege. Would make for a great short story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 We have seen Polux lead a force that would have all but destroyed Perturabo's Iron Warriors but for necessary plot armour. We have (sort of) seen Abaddon's forces dominate Russ and Corax. It's not a problem or unprecedented for a heroic non-primarch to shine. The fact is Sigismund is presented as a hero at Terra; he founds a successful and characterful chapter; he fills the role of 'what comes after' in terms of loyal successors to the primarchs; and over the span of time he becomes Abaddon's counterpart. I really like the idea of him being based on a nuanced template of Diomedes from the Iliad. In terms of execution I think a trick missed was a failure to develop unique characters in the series to become his opponents. Killing a bunch of names, whether vividly presented on the page or just communicated via passing remarks, lacks punch without background. Sigismund has enough character development from books to date to build upon going forward so that his story isn't just bolter porn, but I don't feel that it needs to be bolter porn to establish him as a heroic loyalist. In any events i'm not entirely convinced he has to duel people to come across well. He can be duellist first, but he's still an IF so he'll have some tactical intelligence. Personally, the more I think about it, I reckon Sigismund would get a better showing outside of the siege and that he would be better used as an antagonist for a traitor POV book in the siege series (e.g. what's going on on Terra during the battle barge duel). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Since this is not a topic about a specific Black Library novel and more a "what if"/general Siege of Terra lore discussion, I'm moving it to the Age of Darkness subforum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 @ Rob P "he would be better used as an antagonist for a traitor POV book in the siege series" That's a great idea actually Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5244978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Agreed. I'd like them to do it in a similar manner to how Gav Thorpe depicts Corswain in Holder of the Keys, as basically an unstoppable force that the Fallen know they stand no chance against, with them fleeing after Corswain slays their best swordsman in a single strike. I want the traitors to just know that they have no chance against him. In other news, Sigismund will not be the one to kill Malcharion, as he is depicted to still be in command of the Tenth Company in the aftermath of Curze's death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Valrak Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Sigismund has to be the one that downs Khârn, the stuff in Templar hyped it up! I really hope it's not Marines he kills, I want him to slay some big badass Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I still want Sigismund fighting for his life. Something like The Raid, where it's borderline unbelievable that he gets through Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel_of_Blood Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Agreed. I'd like them to do it in a similar manner to how Gav Thorpe depicts Corswain in Holder of the Keys, as basically an unstoppable force that the Fallen know they stand no chance against, with them fleeing after Corswain slays their best swordsman in a single strike. I want the traitors to just know that they have no chance against him. In other news, Sigismund will not be the one to kill Malcharion, as he is depicted to still be in command of the Tenth Company in the aftermath of Curze's death. Think people mean wounding Malcharion enough to slam him in a dreadnought. As for that Croswain story, I've not heard that story(as I just can't stand audios), but that sounds awesome. Been missing Corswain from the series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I hope through a series of vignettes about him commanding his forces and killing champions as they appear the culminates with him organizing the entire defense while Dorn the Emp, and Sanguinius teleport aboard the vengeful spirit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morovir Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Agreed. I'd like them to do it in a similar manner to how Gav Thorpe depicts Corswain in Holder of the Keys, as basically an unstoppable force that the Fallen know they stand no chance against, with them fleeing after Corswain slays their best swordsman in a single strike. I want the traitors to just know that they have no chance against him. In other news, Sigismund will not be the one to kill Malcharion, as he is depicted to still be in command of the Tenth Company in the aftermath of Curze's death. Think people mean wounding Malcharion enough to slam him in a dreadnought. As for that Croswain story, I've not heard that story(as I just can't stand audios), but that sounds awesome. Been missing Corswain from the series. By kill, I mean injuring significantly enough to be put in a Dreadnought. As he never responded to awakening until the events of Soul Hunter, it is reasonable to assume that he was uninterred at the time of Kurze's death, and as such he could not have been felled by Sigismund at the Siege. As for Holder of the Keys, it is available in prose form in the Lords of Caliban and Legacy of Caliban anthologies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 @ Rob P "he would be better used as an antagonist for a traitor POV book in the siege series" That's a great idea actually Nicked it from Bluntblade further up in the thread! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pheidias Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Perhaps Sig bests Khârn and Khorne then resurrects the Khârn? That's a theory floating around, but only a theory. Original background for Khârn mentions that he was laid low at the Siege, that his "followers" carried him away, only to find him suddenly alive, aluded to be Khorne not allowing him to die yet... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 I never caught the bit about Malcharion falling around the time of Curze's death (so during The Scouring). The info I have on him is he beat three enemy champs in one day at the Siege and then sometime afterward he was placed in a dreadnought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven 19 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Dorn didn't kill Alpharius, Sigismund did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5245859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I still prefer the notion of Khârn falling to the First (Or was it secone) Black Rage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353472-how-will-bl-make-sigismunds-feats-epic-at-the-siege/page/2/#findComment-5246161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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