Primarchs - Scion of the Emperor anthology

[b1soul]

In 40K, that's not 200 guys is it?

[Sete]

In 40K, that's not 200 guys is it?

Think it's between Marshal's.

How many? Who knows.

It's implied now that is chosen not fought between the Marshal's per Eternal Crusader book.

[Marshal Rohr]

They have to do tactical and strategic competitions as well, in the old lore. It was a really well crafted piece of flavor. Sad it’s not mentioned anymore.

[Phoebus]

When a Marshal dies, who will succceed him “is decided by ritual combat, during which all who would contest the right to lead the Crusade will battle one another with various weapons as well as pitting their strategic and tactical prowess against their opponent.”

 

Regarding the High Marshal, however, it is stated that Helbrecht was elected to his office by the other Marshals.

[Marshal Loss]

It may not sound particularly feasible, but this is Sigismund we're talking about, I think suspending disbelief on this one isn't too big a task given his talents as a transhuman lawnmower when it comes to personal combat.

[Phoebus]

It may not sound particularly feasible, but this is Sigismund we're talking about, I think suspending disbelief on this one isn't too big a task given his talents as a transhuman lawnmower when it comes to personal combat.

I misread what was said about the ritual/selection process last night — I was half-asleep! Clearly this is about selecting the new Master of the Templars, not just a new Templar. With that in mind, it still sounds like a superhuman feat... but it’s not a ridiculous selection process for replenishing their ranks.

[Fedor]

The Templar lore about the hand to hand, strategic and tactical contests is solid. It's the beats 200 back to back i find goes too far.

 

Most of the reputation of sigismund, Sevatar, Jubal Khan and others as best of the marine vs marine combatants that was slowly built up in the lore leaned much more heavily towards it being built from one on one honour duels, tournaments and the like, not them being supermarines that were able to beat hundreds of others one after the other. At least that is how i interpreted it.

 

Don't get me wrong i'm not against having various hero characters that are "larger than life" in abilities compared to your average marine, especially when you get into psychic powers, chaos gifts and the like. That has always been part of the setting, but beating ten or so back to back would have been enough to show someone is way out of the ordinary and still keep the military sci-fi idea of Marines as mass produced genehanced supersoldiers built from a standard template intact. I think the idea of there being larger variances in physical ability works more for the Custodes who are supposed to be far more individually hand crafted.

 

Back on topic, i recently read the Ferrus short, Canticle. It's a brief mood piece as earlier said and has some great world building for Medusa, though it seems to strongly hint at a Necron presence on the planet other than the great wyrm. There is mention of Ferrus exploring structures that read very closely as Necron tombs.

[rendingon1+]

About Sigismund:

Heaven't read it, so I don't know how this particular story looks like, but in real life (basing on HEMA exp, which is mayby not very realistic) sword sparring/ "duels" are really short. When you pit experienced and skillful opponent vs less experienced one it's often over in seconds. So assuming Sigismund is a top dog, fights are to the first hit or other sensible rule (ie: not beaten to submission) AND of course he's an astartes it's quite plausible.

 

Also, even if he won all of this duels it proves that he is "just" the best warrior - like super legion champion. How about above mentioned tactical/strategic skill contest? I was under impression that commander has to be more than just a beatstick, I hope some emphasis was put on that matter too.

 

On the other hand, what was the idea behind the tale? That Sigismund was nominated as a master and he has to rpove himself by defeating 200 other templars? Was he the only contender for the rank?

[Tymell]

Hope people don't mind the res on this thread; I've been reading this anthology over the past week and wanted to get some of my thoughts out:

 

 

I agree with m_r_parker that this one isn't as strong as the Sons anthology was, but I also think I maybe liked it a bit better than him overall.

 

Canticle - 6/10

This one's competently written, and I do like the very harsh techno-wasteland setting. It makes Medusa feel more like Mad Max or the Cursed Earth of Judge Dredd than what I'd pictured before, and that gave it a nice bit of flavour. But it ultimately feels like an introduction/opening scene to something that never happens. If Ferrus' Primarchs book had followed this line more, this might've worked better.

 

 

The Verdict of the Scythe - 6/10

This is one that really feels like it should be a longer story, and suffers from its length. The core idea is sound: Mortarion is still new to leading the Death Guard legion, and determining exactly what kind of leader he wants to be. He tries to show mercy, but ultimately rejects that path when he finds indications of the taint of sorcery on the world. It's a good chance to see his outlook really solidifying, and I do really like one exchange in particular:

 

 

 

"Do you believe in surrender, great lord?"

"No," he said. That was the easiest truth he had spoken in many hours.

 

This whole story he's been uncertain and questioning himself. This answer comes so sharply, and can work not just to mean that he doesn't believe in surrendering himself, but that he's naturally distrustful and even scornful of those who do attempt it (or claim to).

 

But it feels too convenient and quick to have Mortarion go on one walk through the city, stumble upon witchcraft, then on the way back see all these other traces of it, and thus come to his conclusion. I like the idea of seeing him come to this point, but it should be a longer, more developed process.

 

 

A Game of Opposites - 7/10

The end lets this one down somewhat, it's the sort you know is coming right from the beginning. Still, being such a short story, it's not as if it spins it out for that long. And I did really like Jaghatai's brief explanation of why he didn't side with Horus, how he forges his own path. The Iron Warriors were nicely characterful too. Decent, if predictable for the most part.

 

 

Better Angels - 8/10

I like this one, showing glimpses of Sanguinius' outlook, and how it changes over time. He's flawed, but subtly so, and it's also a rare instance of foreshadowing of Sanguinius' fate that doesn't feel heavy-handed, just nicely melancholic.

 

 

The Conqueror's Truth - 7/10

It's well-written, and I like that Curze isn't cartoonishly villainous or anything. The scene with him meeting the remembrancer is particularly well done, I felt, lending him a sort-of hint of charisma while still keeping him suitably menacing. The only thing that holds it back is that we've seen this sort of thing before, scenes highlighting Curze's vicious methods and his arguments for them. Still, good as a part of that set of stories.

 

 

The Sinew of War - 7/10

Again, good writing, I liked the pacing in this one. I also enjoyed

the point with the coin revealing the truth, there was some nice bait-and-switch with the flashback scene about the other coin, but it all felt undermined when Guilliman heard Gallan ranting and lying to the court. It was a foolishly brash move on Gallan's part, contrasting his earlier sly restraint, and made the deduction of the coin feel pointless: Guilliman works it out, only to have Gallan immediately admit it all anyway.

 

The ending's a bit sappy too, but then again, the setting doesn't have to always be doom and gloom, especially pre-Heresy.

 

 

The Chamber at the End of Memory - 8/10 (but some will hate it...)

I suspect this will depend a lot of one simple thing: how do you feel about stories about the lost primarchs?

 

Yes, it's one of those. I know some hate this sort, feeling it's pointless to tease and hint about something that will never be fully revealed. If you fit that, don't bother with this, it will probably only frustrate you.

 

Personally, I enjoy such stories, for the most part, and I liked this too. While it did, of course, dance around much in the way of hard facts, it didn't feel like it was doing so teasingly, but in a way that fit in with the story, and it wasn't afraid to give us -some- nuggets of information.

 

I also appreciate it not waffling on during bits of combat. It knows that isn't the focus, and moves on appropriately.

 

First Legion - 8/10

This one gets its score mostly from Wraight's take on the Lion, which made me wish he'd done more with him and the Dark Angels. Like the others, it's a brief story, so there's only so much it can do, but I really felt glimmers of something great in here, similar to how I felt with Savage Weapons by ADB. This one even continues that same theme of "loyalty is its own reward". It's tricky to go into real detail, but I just got this strong feeling of character and something that could've been developed much like he did with the White Scars, if given the chance.

 

The point that holds this back from a 9 is the Alpha Legion. Not that they're badly done, they just feel superfluous. We get a question or two raised about them, of course, but ultimately it feels like their role in this story could've been performed by others just as well.

 

 

All told, I still think this is decent, with some good stories to read and nothing truly bad, but also lacking big stand-outs like Prince of Blood, Emperor's Architect and Abyssal Edge were in the previous Primarchs anthology, and a number of the tales here feel like they'd be better if they could be developed as something longer, or had follow-up stories to take up that role.

[Roomsky]

-snip-

 

Mostly agree, a solid collection that absolutely could have used a higher page count.

 

The only one I really disagree with is A Game of Opposites. The Iron Warrior was a cartoon, nothing interesting was done with the premise, and it continues my pet peeve of Guy transplanting real world philosophy near-verbatim into a primarch's teachings. Hopefully he's warmed up on the Khan enough by now to produce something decent for the siege.

[Tymell]

 

-snip-

 

Mostly agree, a solid collection that absolutely could have used a higher page count.

 

The only one I really disagree with is A Game of Opposites. The Iron Warrior was a cartoon, nothing interesting was done with the premise, and it continues my pet peeve of Guy transplanting real world philosophy near-verbatim into a primarch's teachings. Hopefully he's warmed up on the Khan enough by now to produce something decent for the siege.

 

 

I mean, you're not wrong :p I won't disagree, and maybe it's just personal preference, but I found the cartoonish side kind of endearing. It didn't feel like the moustache-twirling-villain kind of cartoonish that we sometimes get with the likes of the Word Bearers, more a "Quiet, Snively! Must I do -everything- myself?" kind of villain, and for me that made for a nice change from the more serious and straight-faced characters.