Utility of minimum squads of rangers/vanguard

[adam346]

Hi All,

 

I am putting together a 500 point list for a doubles event in a couple of weeks time. I just wondered what peoples thoughts are regarding small units of rangers and vanguard? One list included a min ranger squad with 2 arc rifles, and 3 min squads with 1 plasma caliver in each - this would give me more scope for objectives and board control generally. However, I am wondering if I would be better served with 3 slightly larger squads as 5 man skitarii units seem very squishy? 

 

What do you all think? 

Cheers,
Adam

[DanPesci]

5 man units are very squishy.

 

But if you take 10 man units, then you are very prone to losing guys to morale due to their natively poor leadership (unless you are boosting with specific FW/data tethers etc).

 

5 man unit takes 5 wounds - youve lost 5 guys

 

10 man unit takes 5 wounds - you may lose another 5 guys to morale on a bad roll.

 

There is also the fact you can force an opponent to totally overkill a small squad as opposed to just nicely wipe out a 10 man squad (especially now bolter drill is a thing).

 

Also 5 man squads fill out detachments faster, so you end up with more CP.

 

 

 

For these reasons, i tend to stick to small squads.

 

My rangers are 5 man teams with 2 arquebus.

 

My vanguard are 5 man teams with plasma.

 

 

Saying that, i run 2k points, and the arc rilfe seems like a good cheap gun at 500 points where you are less likely to come up against tough stuff.

[synthaside]

I typically run either 5 or 7 man squads in lower points games 5 is fine but I could go even cheaper 1 special per squad.. Rangers with arcs and vangaurd to debuff toughness would be my choice as metallica for advancing and shooting rapid-fire or the forge that lets me shoot into combat.

 

At 500 points doubles work out what roles you need to fill.. Is it a bit tank? Is it board presence ?

 

Build wise if I would aim to troop swarm were I to bother with a dominus she would be kitted for mele with the maceostubber and d6 extra attack relic or have the metallica trait that lets units fall back and shoot at -1..

[MajorNese]

I typically run 5 man ranger/vanguard squads, and full plasma vanguard squads only as damage dealers (I currently use neither dakkabots nor kataphron).

 

Full plasma vanguard squads are hard-hitting, worthy of receiving the data tether and the +1/+2 BS strat. With that, it's possible to advance and still hit on a 2+, safely overcharging. On the flipside, such a squad is 118p, definitely not suited for 500p games.

 

Otherwise, I usually don't use any special weapons on those guys. Vanguard with 3 shots are awesome against hordes, rangers with 30" will contribute while sitting on an objective, while both are dirt cheap. If you got anti vehicle/monster/MEQ sufficiently covered elsewhere, special weapons add cost while replacing the great standard weaponry. If not, it would be an option, but attract more fire/reduce model count due to costs.

[adam346]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! 

 

I will be teaming with a Bezerker Chaos list, so I am bringing the antitank and ojective scoring element really. The rest of the list looks like this:

 

Dogma: Metalica

HQ: Tech-Priest Dominus, with Phosphoenix (to allow advance and effective shooting if needed in order to keep up with the vanguard

HQ: Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops: As described above

Fast Attack: Sydonian Dragoon

Heavy Support: Onager Dunecrawler with Icarus Array

 

The other thought is to go three squads of 5, and run 2 dunecrawlers alongside the HQ's. The dragoon seems fun though, and adds a bit of extra mobility that I am otherwise lacking. 

[Xisor]

My most useful ones have been:

Full three plasma vanguard

Two two arquebus five rangers

 

The rangers are squishy, but Arquebus so incidental that they're either left alone, or subject to overkill and incidental fire that I'm glad didn't go elsewhere.

 

The utility of the big plasma vanguard is simply from allocation of CPs - subjecting them to protocols with a tether is nice, and pleasantly inexpensive.

 

If they get blown away by a strong breeze, it's a shame, but I've usually got other stuff on the move to work with.

 

I've also got a two further ten man Vanguard - one with three arc rifles, and one with only radguns.

 

They're handy in the volume of fire category, but rarely in a way that couldn't be replicated elsewhere, and don't have tethers so rarely get protocolled.

 

I tend to split them into 5-body groupings for CP purposes these days, but truth be told ideally (dreams of electric sheep can come true) I'd like to have them in a transport to properly make headway on holding objectives via Ob Sec bodies.

 

One day!

[MajorNese]

I will be teaming with a Bezerker Chaos list, so I am bringing the antitank and ojective scoring element really. The rest of the list looks like this:

[...]

Heavy Support: Onager Dunecrawler with Icarus Array

 

The other thought is to go three squads of 5, and run 2 dunecrawlers alongside the HQ's. The dragoon seems fun though, and adds a bit of extra mobility that I am otherwise lacking. 

While the icarus onager is nice, it is definitely not anti tank. It's anti horde/light vehicle, with not enough strength/damage to seriously scratch T7/T8 and 3+ save.

 

My advice would be to go for neutron lasers and additional stubber (2p). Neutron is by far the most reliable AT weapon we have (guaranteed 3D, wounds everything on 3+, negates usual 3+ armour), and the 6 shots stubber will thin down hordes. Stubbers might not sound like much, but at 2p they are auto-include. If you are worried about anti air - as the onager should get enhanced data tether anyway, 1CP would result in a 2+ to hit even against units with -1 to hit.

 

If your berzerker ally is taking care of CC, I'd prefer to bring 2 neutronagers instead of one chicken, and wreck vehicles across the board while sitting on backfield objectives. A single AT unit is just a target, multiple units are a strategy as they say. Maybe use Necromechanic WL trait on the enginseer, park him with the 2 onagers and if necessary spend a CP to double repair. That's an average of repairing 6W/round, should keep them in game for a while. Keep the infantry cheap and advancing.

 

If you are concerned about mobility, Lucius might be useful to deep strike cheap objective campers (and reduce damage by ignoring -1 AP), or Stygies to scout ahead and be harder to kill at range. Metallica doesn't seem to be adding much IMO - vanguards hitting on a 4+ instead of 3+ after advancing is easily offset when even one of your models survives by being harder to kill. A few ranger shots won't do much either, they excel at massed fire, not a handful of shots. The metallica buff would be rather useless for your firebase though.