BA / DW - Tournament Feedback.

[Morticon]

Hi there all !! 

Firstly, I must apologise to the community for not sharing this sooner.  I returned to Cape Town for a holiday and played in the first Regional Tournament of the year.  It was quite a big one community-wise, and one that led up to the "King of the Cape" - a local ranking competition.  

Unfortunately, because my list relied on a particular set of combos, and considering how many locals read this forum, I elected not to share the development of the list to the general public - although, eagle-eyed members would have seen my first iteration posting in the Army List forum. 

After the CA2018 drop, I finalised some things I wanted. 

 

 

My core would be this:

 

BA Smash Cap - Hammer, Shield, Angels Wing, Artisan. 

BA LIbby Dread - Quickening, Wings

 

5x Scouts - storm bolter

5x Scouts - storm bolter

5x Intercessors - grenade

 

8x Vanvets - 5shields, an assortment of weapons 

 

5x Devs - Las/ML/HB - Cherub

5x Devs - Las/ML/HB - Cherub

 

Futher to this BA core....

I was toying with the Deathwatch, who's points reduction on a few levels made them an exceptional choice. 

I started with just a patrol of:

 

Libby - JP, Beacon, Stormbolter

 

8x Vets - 2Terms, 1Vanguard, 7 stormbolters, 6shields.

 

and a secondary squad of 8 vets with SB/SS - this detachment changed numbers and gear a LOT thanks to various sources suggestions (Props to Prot, here). 

 

Also,  I initially wanted to play a "Rusty/Binary/Loyal 17" detachment with 6 Arquebuses - the new cost of them and their ability made them VERY appealing. However, after a few playtests, not only did I see just  how very fragile they were, more importantly I saw how gimped they were by terrain.  

I made a local-meta choice based on terrain to take them out.  

Instead I went for a full Battalion of these guys. 

 

Libby - JP, Stormbolter (Veil, Might)

Captain - JP, Stormbolter, Hammer (Beacon here, now)

 

8x Vets - 2Terms, 1Vanguard, 7 stormbolters, 6shields.

10x Vets - 5Bikers (homer), 5SB, 5SS.

5x Intercessors. 

 

I was playtesting this list and its subtle variations heavily before the tournament- playing about 10 practice games in 3 weeks. 

I had another dev squad in as well, and right up until one day before the tournament my list was set. 

I played Tau on the Thursday before the weekend, and they THRASHED me.  It was disgusting.  The fact that he had drones behind a wall, so I couldnt target them, meant I was wasting heavy shots.  And every time I charged, the massive linked fire from the Tau just destroyed whatever got in.  

Because I took only the models needed for the list, I had nothing else to change out- but.....As fate would have it, I was doing a modelling job for a mate in China, and had taken 15 mortar units from China to build. 

I wound up substituting a dev squad for 9 mortars and a Kurov's Commander.  

My final list wound up looking like this: 

 

BA - BATT
 

BA Smash Cap - Hammer, Shield, Angels Wing, Artisan. 

BA LIbby Dread - Quickening, Wings

 

5x Scouts - storm bolter

5x Scouts - storm bolter

5x Intercessors - grenade

 

8x Vanvets - 5shields, Axe, Maul, 2Swords

 

5x Devs - Las/ML/HB - Cherub

5x Devs - Las/ML/HB - Cherub

DW - BATT

 

Libby - JP, Stormbolter (Veil, Might)

Captain - JP, Stormbolter, Hammer (Beacon here, now)

 

8x Vets - 2Terms, 1Vanguard, 7 stormbolters, 6shields.

10x Vets - 5Bikers (homer), 5SB, 5SS.

5x Intercessors. 

 

IG - SPEARHEAD

1 Commander- Kurovs, Bolter

3x Mortars

3x Mortars

3x Mortars

[Morticon]

The tournament would play a combination of missions.

 

1:  Big Guns (BRB)

2: Dominate and Destroy (CA17)

3: Scorched Earth (CA17)

4: Vital Intelligence (CA18)

5: Four Pillars (CA18)

6:  Beachhead (CA18)

 

This meant that in 3 of the games I would know who was going first.  

Now, for those of you who havent spotted, or are otherwise unfamiliar with this combo, stay tuned!!!   This is something akin to a "stealth alpha assault" list.  

It is DECEPTIVELY fast, and opponents were always caught with their pants down, even when they thought they knew what was coming. 
 

I must say ahead of time, that the list relies HEAVILY on first turn, and if facing a standard top tier shooting list while going second......you're not likely to do nearly as well. 

 

But, this is how it works. 

If you're going first:

 

1: Captain burns 2CP on Forlorn (he obviously always has Visions).  This gives him a 12" +d6" pre-game move.  Meaning he will get a first turn charge in almost all circumstances. 

2: Libby Dread moves up 6", casts Quickening, and then Wings for another 12" and an additional 3" charge range.  (He often pops smoke this turn, too). 

3: Bikers move up 14" 

4: Vanguard burn 2CP for "On Wings of Fire" - redeploying 9" from the enemy.  (They will, more often than not, burn an additional 2 CP for Descent of Angels 3d6" charge).

5: The DW Captain moves up 12" (possibly an additional d6" if needed) and then slingshots the chunky 8man DW squad into the fray 9" away from the enemy lines. 
6:  The scouts, are often positioned aggressively - mission dependent. 

This means that there is a massive amount of hardy units 9" or closer from the enemy lines.  
With the DW shooting, and the mortar support, infantry screens just crumble. 
The relatively small, single base of the Smashy Cap means that he can navigate the gaps to get hard targets. 

 

For additional support, the DW libby casts might of heroes on the Libby Dread -giving him T8 - a really important threshold Toughness and then uses Veil of Time on the slingshotted DW, or the Libby Dread- depending who needs the reroll to charge more. 

The nature of this list means that your usual target priority is completely thrown out the window.  Where most would want to focus on backfield objective holders and heavy support, the enemy's gaze is turned towards the more immediate threats.   

 

 


 

[Morticon]

The tournament scene in 8th has been developing well since I've been away.  The community has grown and the local gaming quality and list design has gone up astronomically.  This meant that I was in for a very uphill battle. 

 

Despite being relatively or comparatively small (We had 26 players over all), and bar maybe one player, this tournament drew all of Cape Town's top gamers.  

 

On top of that, the knight meta had finally caught up in South Africa, and I believe there were around 9 or so Knights floating around the 26 lists - only 1 of which was a "pure" knight list, while 2 others had 3 knights - but a tough thing to deal with in 1750 games. 

Tristan was playing his Loota-bomb list, Nigel was there with his Orks, the top two Tau players were fielding disgustingly shooty Tau lists.  Also, the top nid player, who had taken a few previous tournaments last year was there with his scary new nid list.   On top of that, the "new kid on the block" who had won the last few local tournaments with his DE/Eldar list was there too, as were FAR too many Russ-heavy IG contingents. (Probably around 14 or so of those Tank Commanders). 

A TOUGH field of play.  

[Morticon]

My games were as follows: 


1: Gallant Spam Knights/IG
2: Russ-spam IG 

3: Tau

4: IG/Knights (Castellan/Gallant)

5: DE /Eldar (wrack/grotesque/ravager)

6: IG/Grey Knights 

[Prot]

I like the way you're telling this story.....

 

I wonder how it ends? ;)

[keeblerartillery]

Can’t wait to hear more mort!

[Charlo]

Love what I'm reading so far mate, list design is soupy but a necessary way to play in top tier 8th ed.

 

Excited to hear the rest! 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can't wait to see how you do Mort !!! :)

[Brother Cruoris]

How can you have a relic in all 3 detachments?

Is the Kurovs Aquila a typo?

[Morticon]

Brother Cruoris:

Yup,yup. But you need to pay CP for it. 1CP for one more than usual.

[Brother Cruoris]

Yes ofc. But you have wings on your warlord in the first detachment (free).

The beacon in the deathwatch (-1cp)

And Kurovs in the guard detachment (-1cp?)

I thought you could only use the extra relic strat once. Either for 1 cp or 3 cp. But I can use it for 1cp more then once if it's in another detachment?

 

Edit typo and phone autocorrect. =P

[Morticon]

Game 1: 


I paired up against a player I'd not been up against before rocking a Catachan guard contingent along with 3 Gallant knights. 

He had 9 mortars and a lot of Catachans (led by Straken and a few other HQs). 

I was at a disadvantage for Big Guns having 2 more Heavy units than he did.  I set up relatively aggressively, noting that he had left his gallants unscreened.   This meant i was able to fly smashy and the Libby Dread in, and possibly take down two knights.   

 

I usually only put the 5 man Veteran squad into reserve, but because of the board type, and the fact the knights would come to me, I elected to have some more tactical options, placing the 8man Vets as well as the jumpers in reserve.  

I also got the +1 to the roll, which I won! WHoop Whoop!! 
But, then he seized ....


O_o 

 

 

Man, I hate that rule so much.  

 

 

His knights charged forward.  I cant remember the House he was using, but it was the one geared for speed and combat.   He smashed into my lines, wiping out a primaris squad, and consolidating into a mortar squad. The rest of his models moved forward claiming a large area of the board.


Thankfully, though, my devs were still fully functional.  Smashy + Devs made light work of one of the knights.  Unfortunately, return fire from strats saw him check out quickly. 

The next few turns were an uphill slog.  The Knights got STUCK INTO my lines, smashing the backline, while I flanked the left side, moving up what I could to try take out the oncoming guard.

 

The guard went down very quickly for the most part, though their characters put up a fight, slowing down my advance into his backlines.  But, there was just too much antiinfantry on my part, so the clean up went relatively like clockwork.  

The issue, however, was that he was ahead on points.  His commander and mortars were claiming backline, while another squad was high up on the third floor of ruins claiming another - his one knight was on my backline one and another knight and Hellhound on the middle ground one. 
 

Over the next few turns I sent what I could and burned what strats I could to take on the knights.

 

By the third and fourth turn, my Veterans were shooting up his back ranks, with the bikers causing mayhem at the back.  My DW Primaris were running along to try make their way up the ruin in the back area of the board.  However,  his knights were till going strong, and I had now lost all my heavy hitters. 

 

by turn 4 I had cleaned out the backline and one more knight, but had lost my jumpers and a dev squad and all my mortars.  I had fired everything, I could, and charged with my valiant BA jumpers who had died bravely taking the knights wounds down.   

 

Nearing end game and with the knight on one wound, the brave IG Commander charged the Gallant.  It was literally the only thing I could do.  

With 3/4 attacks and one 6 rolled, it was up to him to make one 3+ save, as we were both out of CP.....

 

He failed!!!! The IG Commander brought down an Imperial Knight!!! 

With that last Knight down it was just down to the BA to play clean up and move on to the backfield objectives. 


The game ended with me on 2 objective points - one in the middle high ruin, one claimed by the Commander and 3 of his heavies as well as First Strike, WL and linebreaker.

He had a point secured by a hellhound, and 4 of my Heavies + warlord and first strike (we played first strike all tournament). 

 

The final score ended  12:9 to me. 

 

 

VERY, very tight game. 

 

[Morticon]

Yes ofc. But you have wings on your warlord in the first detachment (free).

The beacon in the deathwatch (-1cp)

And Kurovs in the guard detachment (-1cp?)

I thought you could only use the extra relic strat once. Either for 1 cp or 3 cp. But I can use it for 1cp more then once if it's in another detachment?

 

Edit typo and phone autocorrect. =P

Two clarifications I guess - one is that all upgrades from strats, WL traits and Powers had to be noted on the list and done pre-tournament.  We couldn't change on the fly. 

The second is that the restriction on the multiple uses of Strats, unless noted, is only in each phase (Movement,Shooting,Charging,Combat, Morale). 

 

So, unless there are tournament specific house rules, or another rule I've missed, I think you're good to go. 

[dakkamasta]

That Company Commander's name will go down in the history books. What an awesome way to finish off that knight!

[Charlo]

Great first game! Three Gallants is awesome. From an opponents perspective, was 3 gallants strong? Can't say I'm not tempted by it.

[Panzer]

 

Yes ofc. But you have wings on your warlord in the first detachment (free).

The beacon in the deathwatch (-1cp)

And Kurovs in the guard detachment (-1cp?)

I thought you could only use the extra relic strat once. Either for 1 cp or 3 cp. But I can use it for 1cp more then once if it's in another detachment?

 

Edit typo and phone autocorrect. =P

 

The second is that the restriction on the multiple uses of Strats, unless noted, is only in each phase (Movement,Shooting,Charging,Combat, Morale). 

 

 

 

You can really use the extra relic stratagem only once (got FAQed/Errataed in early to stop people abusing the 1CP variant instead of paying the second additional one with the 3CP variant).

HOWEVER there is no such thing as an "extra relic" stratagem! Each faction has their own Stratagem with its own name. So while the above mentioned FAQ/Errata would prevent you from using the Asra Militarum "extra relic" stratagem twice for 1CP each, it would not prevent you from using the Astra Militarum "extra relic" stratagem once for 1CP and then the Deathwatch "extra relic" stratagem once for 1CP as well. Those are two separate Stratagems. Different name, different Codex, similar effect (not completely though as they target different units and give access to different relics).

 

That's what Cruoris was talking about.

[Are Verlo]

Cant wait for the rest of the games...

 

And I find it interesting that you have adopted the 1750 games.

Here in scandivavia there has been (to my knowledge) no such develpoment and most tournaments run at 2000.

 

And I´ll play Nostradamus:Mort will state that he wishes he had termies in both DW vet units and that he wish he had 3 units of DW vets, all with 1+ termies and 4-5 SS + SB on all dudes. The units with termies and SS vets are crazy hard to shift, especially when they "deep strike" into cover.

[Brother Cruoris]

Thanks for the clarification Mort and sfPanzer.

Time to go check all my list and maybe add some relics. =D

 

Btw, nice batrep Mort! =)

[Morticon]

Cant wait for the rest of the games...

 

And I find it interesting that you have adopted the 1750 games.

Here in scandivavia there has been (to my knowledge) no such develpoment and most tournaments run at 2000.

 

And I´ll play Nostradamus:Mort will state that he wishes he had termies in both DW vet units and that he wish he had 3 units of DW vets, all with 1+ termies and 4-5 SS + SB on all dudes. The units with termies and SS vets are crazy hard to shift, especially when they "deep strike" into cover.

 

1.  Yeah! Timing has been an issue with the amount of dice being rolled, so we've opted for 1750.  Especially with Chapter Approved reducing so much.

 

2.  You are generally spot on! The termies are INCREDIBLE, and they took of a lot of heat!!  However, the combo worked because I had a 5-man biker squad that was a Troop! and, then the 5man objective camper DW Primaris- which were REALLY good.  

[Morticon]

Game 2 - Astra Militarum. 

This game was against possibly one of the best IG players locally. He was a fervent BT player, but unfortunately the call of the AM (and their incredible power level) just saw more and more BT being swapped out for IG until it was just IG. 

He was playing something along the lines of:

 

6 Russes (All tank commanders I think - maybe 4 of them, i'm not sure).

 

One was the relic cannon, one was a punisher, the rest were battlecannons.  All had plasma sponsons and i think most had lascannons. 

He had about 60 guardsmen, and maybe some mortars in addition.  He also had a Scion drop battallion - command squad and 3 plasma squads.  Additionally, there were a few psyker options.

 

 

_____

I had played this player and this list a few days before the tournament.  It had absolutely DESTROYED me.  In 5 turns I was taken to 2 characters left of the board.  The amount of shooting was unreal.   I was going to be in for a very, very rough time. 

However, the board set up (Frontal Assault) was in my favour. 

 

After the roll off, (with +1 to me) I got to go first!!! This was going to be VERY big. 

Mitch (the player) is the local grand-daddy of 8th ed bubbling/screening.  He essentially creates these phenomenal layers, which just make it SO difficult to get to the meat of the list. 

 

However, he left a gap.  


Smashy used Forlorn to move forward, gunning straight for the gap.  Everything else moved forward exactly as it's supposed to.  For the first time, he saw how the list is supposed to work. My shooting cleared a few waves of guardsmen, and punched a hole or two in the screens.  And then everything charged in. 

Bikers, Veterans, Libby, Smashy and the Vanguard - sadly, even with the 3d6, the vanguard screwed up the charge- but, everything else made it in.  And smashy charged two russes. 

 

Both went down, and the guardsmen were being slaughtered.  He still had a full turn before the Scions came to support.

In his turn, he tried to get my key pieces off - the libby dread, and smashy.  He rolled a 12 for smite with his psyker on smashy....not good.  But, i had a block, so why not try, right? 

I roll a 12 too!!!! With the +1 for the hood that was in range, I block it. He's super bleak.  Understandably. 

The combo of the smoke and +1T to the libby dread make it so that both smashy and libby survive his return fire.  Turn 2 is going to be brutal. 

In my turn, my units advance and smash up the other tanks.  By this stage its over.  

His scions come in and do some damage, but theyre quickly taken out.  

I managed to pull a HUGE VP diff for this.  

Victory (and revenge) for the Angels!!!! 

[Morticon]

Great first game! Three Gallants is awesome. From an opponents perspective, was 3 gallants strong? Can't say I'm not tempted by it.

 

They were fast and scary.  I think theyd work well with some aggro BA lists, if thats what you're into!! 

[Charlo]

Congratulations on the win! Well earned bud. Might of Heroes on the Libby Dread is a real game changer I think. Makes me wonder if there is something to be said about a T9 Land Raider...

 

 

 

Great first game! Three Gallants is awesome. From an opponents perspective, was 3 gallants strong? Can't say I'm not tempted by it.

They were fast and scary. I think theyd work well with some aggro BA lists, if thats what you're into!!

I am always into aggression. Using a single Gallant was the most fun I've had playing 40k (8D fist included) so using a trio can only be better.

[Morticon]

GAME 3 - TAU. 

I was now to come up against a very similar list to the list that near tabled me two days before the tournament - the list that made me change mine.  Man, this was not going to be fun. 

It was something along the lines of:

 

Ethereal

Shadowsun

Commander (or something)

4*6 Fire warriors (may have even been 6*6 firewarriors)

2x 6 Sniper Drones  (These things are HARDCORE)

4x5 Shield Drones

1 Riptide - all the bells and whistles

3 x Missile sides.  

 

 

____

 

I had a great board set up (dawn of war) and possibly the only chance of doing well against this list would be if i went first.  Without first, I think the amount of S5 shots and higher put out would just cream me.  The -1 to AP gear along with the gear that further improves AP(, is it a WL trait or gear?) just makes these guys unreal.   The combo you can do with the sniper drones PUMPING out mortals (on 5s and 6s thanks to strats) is also fantastic, and means that my characters are toast. 

 

The mission was the one where you could burn the objective marker fro d3 points instead of 1 if it was in the enemy's zone. 

Because of this, while we were placing objectives, I made sure that at least my two would be in the deployment area.  My opponent figured the opposite would be good for him, and placed his just out of the deployment zones. 

Thankfully I won the deployment roll off, and stuck him in the side (that arguably had better cover!) and had 2 objectives in his zone and another 1 just outside of it.  This would allow me to play ultra aggressively - to the strength of the list. 

 

During unit deployment, I tried a little fake on the right (deploying a few units on the objective there) but then putting my aggro force on the left.  He split his forces, castling up with the warriors and the shooty drones in the middle on a big ruin, in front of an objective (though not on it, since it was a little further out) and then then castling up with the shield drones, riptide and missile-sides. 

 

Again, luck was with me and I got to go first.  

His face when i said "Pre-game move" and moved the captain 12" +d6" (rolled a 6) RIGHT up to his missile-sides....was amazing.  

I was very nervous as the Tau player is very good, and I know what the list can do.  

In my turn, I moved everything up, did the libby combo, and pushed hard on the left flank.  

 

Then, after the psychic phase, i realised that i had screwed up HUGELY!!  (And ive done this in a few games) - I forgot to move the DW librarian AND more importantly the bloody smash captain.  He was still around 7/8" away but, he wasn't well positioned.  I was so, so, so angry with myself (i may have hurled a die somewhere  ).  My opponent was an absolute hero by giving me the opp to move the smash captain  - but unfortunately, I couldnt take him up on the offer knowing full well how smashy works with overwatch (and I dont think he did).

 

The Vanguard struck in on the right and positioned to charge in on 2 small firewarrior squads bunkered down in a ruin and on an objective. 

I poured ALL my shooting into the drones, everything that I could, from however far away went into taking the drones out.  Thankfully the list puts out enough dakka with the orders on the mortars to do a decent job, and by the end of shooting, the drones were almost all dead - i think there may have been 1, maybe 2 left.  

 

Then the charges....

 

The vanguard burn DoA and get in, while smashy fails his first roll, but the Angels Wing reroll gets him in.  The libby dread makes it in to the riptide, and DW or bikers also make it up, i think.  

 

Smashy only takes out 2 broadsides, but the libby dread wrecks the riptide.  The vanguard on the right kill one squad....but are still not claiming.  I burn my last 3 CP and use for the honour of the chapter with the vanguard. I think in retrospect I should have fought the Broadsides again, because even one was a huge threat.  But, i felt i needed to secure the other objective.  The vanguard killed the Tau, and consolidated on to the objective allowing me to burn it (only for 1 CP though).  

 

His 2nd turn saw a crazy amount of return fire despite me having neutered so much of his army. 

He made light work of much of the DW, the Captain, and the libby dread. 

Turn 2, saw me claim (and burn) the objective on the left side where the riptide and crew were, and clean out the remaining units that side- ethereal too.  He now had his commander shadowsun, another ethereal(i think), the shield drones and then the firewarriors.   

 

 

I tried to mortar what shooty drones I could.  The firewarriors remained relatively unscathed, and were bunkering down  in the middle section.  

 

Over the next few turns, the Tau fought back INCREDIBLY well.  The amount of dakka they were still able to throw out was SO surprising.  However, he just didnt have enough heavy hitters to make enough of a difference, and with the majority of points out of his reach, he was unable to score anything needed. 

By the end of it, I had safely secured a win. 

[Morticon]

Next up, 

 

a game vs IG/Knights

 

Castellan

Gallant

Armiger

 

Punisher Tank Commander

3 Commanders

9 Mortars

60 guardsmen.  

 

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Well done Mort .