BA / DW - Tournament Feedback.

[Morticon]

I was playing board quarters, and one of the new CA18 missions that favoured going second (on account of point capture). 

This was going to be tough- especially working my way through 60 guardsmen.  While I had played this opponent before, (he SMASHED me in a previous tournament with his alpha GK when 8th first came out) - I hadnt played this opponent using this list.  Because of that, i was a little unsure how he would deploy his Knights - aggressively, or layered behind the guard- but did have a guess. 
 

As luck would have it, i once again got first turn.  I think my opponent opted to not seize. 

 

Having heard how Smashy had been ripping tanks up in previous games, he opted to play very defensively, and build multiple layers around the castellan and the gallant, and put them as far back as he could. 
 

However, knowing that he was aware of smashies move, I opted to send him into reserve, instead making use of the 3d6 charge at a later stage in the game.  

 

He also built a bubble measuring out the librarians wings move and max move, making sure I couldnt charge anything of value. 

 

----

I moved forward with the DW units, and redeployed the jumpers as standard.  Instead of playing aggressively with the scouts as usual, i used them to take two of the objectives not in my quarter.  I also marched the BA Primaris up to the same objective, just doubling down on the objective claiming.  As fate would have it (and possibly one of the only things to keep me in the game) I rolled a 6 on the dice for the active objectives, meaning all of the objectives were worth 2 points.  This meant that I could put on excessive forward pressure, but also have units on objectives, making his target priority VERY tough. 

 

thankfully the terrain had a small house in the center, large enough to hide my libby behind.  I moved him up, and casted wings, but didnt take the 12" move - just taking solace that next turn, I'd get a 12" move and then another potential 12" in the psychic phase. 

 

 

The bikers went up the center with the beaconed DW, and laid waste to the guardsmen in the further bubbles.   I targeted the Armiger with what I could, and it was left with 1 or 2 wounds.  The DW bikers and veterans all made their charges into the closest squad, as did the jumpers.   I cant remember exactly how many died in the first phase, but it was at least 40.  I think i killed 4 mortar bases too.

 

in his turn, the Castellan blasted the scouts off the objective, took down some of the vanguard, and the veterans and sent  a missile into the libby dread (i think?). - then charging into the vanguard and wiping most of them out.   But, i was still able to capture 6 points to his 2.   

 

Round 2 my libby dread came out to play, and my bikers left combat ready to charge the punisher tank.  

 

I didnt yet bring down smashy, as the knights were both unwounded, and i needed to keep that piece in reserve until I knew where it needed to go. 
 

I took out the rest of the mortars, and then most of the other guardsmen as well as the Armiger.  I may have put a few wounds on the Gallant. 
Libby dread smashed into the tank commander, and made light work of it, with might of heroes and red rampage.  

 

By this stage, he had some remnants on his objective, while I had bunkered down on mine.  I think the next objective was his.  


Turn two, saw some heavy damage taken, but my opponent was flustered, feeling the pressure of the marines and made a mistake, advancing his Castellan (not being able to charge after!) 

 

In turn three, smashy came down and targetted the castellan.  I think I had smashy, the libby dread and the DW captain - I pumped red rampage too, but unfortunately, the rolls were not with me, and with all those attacks, the castellan was left on 3 wounds :/   (The DW character failed to wound with his hammer- which would have been the finishing blow - and i think i was out of CP for Clavis - and to be honest even if i had, i possibly forgot.).  

 

The next few turns were TIGHT.  

 

Basically, the knigths slowly started fighting back, killing what they could.  That was all that was left on his side, but I only had my support units- everything else was gone.  

The gallant got into my lines, charging the devs, and the mortars, I removed casualties to place my one dev squad out of close combat.  He then consolidated into the mortars behind him.  

 

The next turns saw him cleaning up the rest of my army, and slowly making back the lead I had taken....However, one lucky shot from my missile launcher (the one that i had removed out of combat) got through the knights armour and i rolled a 4 for damage!!! Huzzah!!! Dead castellan- just the Gallant left.  

Unfortunately for him, it was bottom of 5th turn, and we were out of time.  He had ripped up everything else in my list aside from the devs and the primaris on the objective.  With a turn or two more, I would have possibly been tabled and definitely lost....but the BA took it again...

 

18 - 15.  

[Morticon]

Up next: 

Dark Eldar / Eldar

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can't wait for the next batrep Mort !!!

[Morticon]

Can't wait for the next batrep Mort !!!

 

Hhahaha- cheers, mate!! Kinda lost steam, thought people tuned out.  Will get back to it. 

[Slothysaur]

Really enjoying these myself. It's a really cool and unexpected list that you're running and using to beat some of the internet's best lists.

[Morticon]

So, game 5 was going to possibly be the tournament make or break.  

 

I was up against the player that had taken the last two major local tournaments and was someone new on the local scene. 

He was rocking a really hard DE/Eldar list that looked something like this:

 

Farseer on bike

Warlock on bike

Warlock on bike

 

Urien

Homonc

2 Other Characters - not sure what kind. 

3x5 warriors w/ shredder

3x Venoms

3x Disintegrators

2x5 Wracks

1x9 Wracks

2x 4 Grotesques

 

_______

The big key here is how the jinx and doom combo works to just completely destroy particular threats.  Black Cornucopia as well as other eldar tricks give some unexpected mobility and resilience too.  Added the that, the Dizzy Ravs are just deadly.  

 

Unfortunately, I had the worst board match up against a very shooty opponent - playing in the old school hammer and anvil short board edge.  Added to this, I had NO experience with wracks and grotesques.  I knew about the vexator mask - which I actually factored into my list building with Veil of Time -and I intended playing around.  I also had experience with venoms, seeing how much damage they put out. With all the focus from the people around me I fixated on the fact that the Wracks could come back, so made sure I planned accordingly. 

 

 

Fortunately, I got first turn, yet again! (It would turn out to be the case for the last game too). 

 

I set up relatively aggressively, but there were some terrain pieces that blocked great lines of fire to all his units, so i had to work within fire-ways. He was very smart and positioned his Ravagers RIGHT at the back of the board, well away from my devs and way behind the aggressive core of his list.  This was going to be problematic. 

 

In first turn, however the army moved like clockwork, really surprising him.  By the end of the movement phase, when he saw how much was in his lines he was notably thrown. 

 

This is where my first and biggest mistake of the game came.  As I mentioned before, I was completely concerned about the wrong thing.  I had NO idea how much damage the Grotesques put out.  I thought they were just tough and tanky  (T6, W4, 4++, 6+++) - but no....what the hell..

 

The combat damage they throw out 

 

I positioned in a way that had my DW primed to take out the layers of wracks BEHIND the grots - instead of the Grots themselves.  I laid waste to them with the DW and the the mortars, but man did the man make a disgusting amount of 4++ saves.  I should have been putting that SIA from the DW into the grots.  And then I should have charged with the Captain into the Grots- i did neither. 

 

Smash Cap charged two venoms, the vanguard charged a Ravager and the DW charged the grotesques. The libby also charged the Grots but failed to do too much  

In my turn I took out all three venoms, 2 squads of wracks and I think two Grots.  I also took the ravager down to 1 wound.  I thought this would be enough to push him right off kilter. 

 

I was wrong. 

 

The second turn saw him hit back hard.  Smash cap was made super light work of, having being jinxed and doomed.  The veterans were counter charged by the other grot squad and the ravager that was damaged wound up getting 5 or 6 wounds on my jumpers - of which i think 4 failed or 5 failed their 3++. 

 

In turn two, my reserve veterans came to try clean up his big wrack squad and prevent the cornucopia revive.  I moved what little I could, and tried to fight back. My long range shooting whiffed, and i didnt even manage to take out the gimped Ravager.  On top of this, I forgot mortar orders for 2 squads and as a result, had leftover wracks. I even sent my libby dread to try and finish the job, wasting his attacks on them, rather than more dangerous targets (wings was blocked i think, as was quickening).  Even he whiffed.  

 

However, with what I had left, I managed to kill all his remaining Troops aside from the wrack squad.  I was hoping that would be enough to prevent him from scoring any Four Pillar points from objectives, but it was already too late.  He had warlord and was already one up.  

 

In his 2nd turn, the back of my army was broken.  The vanguard were wiped out, the remaining veterans were wiped, and all that remained in the front lines were the DW libby and the DW Captain who were seriously wounded.  

 

He used the wrack strat to revive and redeploy to my backline.  (Thankfully he forgot to charge them - giving me a turns grace). 

 

We went on for the rest of the game -and i think it went to 5th, but it was just a slow and steady onslaught.  Slowly but surely my backline disintegrated and the DE overran me.  


Fantastic game that was well fought, but I wont be making the same mistakes again. 

BA loss - 

 

9-2 i think.  

[keeblerartillery]

 

 

Can't wait for the next batrep Mort !!!

Hhahaha- cheers, mate!! Kinda lost steam, thought people tuned out. Will get back to it.

Not at all! I check pretty much everyday to read on your exploits!

[Morticon]

Final Game - IG/ GK. 

 

I was up against another great player with a very strong list.  

 

 

Nemesis Grand Daddy 

Nemesis Grand Daddy 

5x Strikes

5x Strikes

5x Strikes

 

Tank Commander

Tank Commander

Commander

Commander

60 Guardsmen

Russ

Basilisk.  (with vigilus detachment)

 

 

Rich is a great player that wields this list like a scalpel.  He uses an amazing combo of powers with the GK to give them fantastic mobility, and even took out some crazy good knight lists.  I knew I would have to play through my skin to even come close to this one.  

The terrain was really tough too.  A good few pieces of very big GW ruins, that were boarded up on the floors, so essentially a lot of LOS blocking.  However, me having gotten first turn (really lucky tournament for me) saw him place his big tanks out of LOS, but well bubbled, and with one NDK and a squad of strikes laying covered for counter. 

 

I deployed my Devs and mortars in ruins and hid my Libby behind a nice big one, preparing for a turn 2 assault rather than his usual turn 1.  Given how far back I would be with the set up, and behind the ruins, I would likely need to delay the beacon of the DW Veterans. 
In turn 1, the bikers moved up, the DW primaris moved up as did the DW characters.  The jumpers deployed behind the ruin wall, ready to charge through to the guardsmen on the other side.  

 

Smashy moved up aggressively, hoping to flank the left side and engage with two tanks relatively close together.  He would need his army to blast their way through 20 protected guardsmen to make it happen. 

My opponent used the 2CP to get the in cover rule, and then popped a strat to give his guard a +1 save.  This meant the guardsmen were getting a 3+.  I threw everything I could into them - All mortars, all long range bolter shots, every biker shot in los, and even my HB and Missile launchers! I finally got the main squad i needed wiped out, clearing a relatively clear path to the tanks. 

I rolled a suitably high number and got in to charge both tanks.  (In retrospect, I should have charged the NDK-GM and a tank).  Knowing how hardcore the tanks are, and how much dakka they put out I wasn't tanking any chances.  I burned another 3 CP and fought again, taking out his relic cannon tank.  The jumpers also wiped a squad of guardsmen with ease.  

He was now down 2 tanks and about 20 or so guard (he also lost a few strikes from an explosion).  

 

 

In his second turn, he bombed what he could, and took out smashy. But it wasn't a heavy fight back.   My turn two wave came strongly with the veterans beaconing to the center, libby dread moving up strongly and the vanguard moving around the corner. 

 

I was cleaving into his lines in my turn two, using the few vanguard to charge around the corner and consolidate into the basilisk, whittling down his units but his NDK was fighting back strong.    


However...now the GK strike back came.  

 

He repositioned the remaining 2 strikes on the far side of the board where my base objective was.  He dropped two more squads in the vicinity along with a NDK-GM.  He had effectively shifted the battle to my backyard, away from where the thrust of my attack was.  This would be problematic.  

He started eating away at the backlines, taking out my one Dev, a scout squad and my BA primaris - maybe even my DW primaris too. 

 

Even though I was in the lead on points, if he took over my backline objective, he would swing it really quickly.  
 

I then pulled a surprise assault on him! I called the Teleport Homer (from the Biker wargear ;) ) He had forgotten about it, and now 7 Stormbolter-wielding DW were supporting the backline of mortars.  They made very light work of the GK.   

The other saving grace came from an 8" charge from the DW libby through solid LOS blocking ruins into his Russ - tying him up and preventing him from firing.  He was now very much on a shakey back foot.  

The next few turns saw his GKs try to take out what they could, but his army was totalled.  By turn 4 he had his two tanks, wounded, but in combat, around an objective, and his one GK.   

 

The BA and DW had fended off the assault well and it was a solid victory to the BA. 

 

 

 

[Morticon]

Over on the other top table, the DE/Eldar player was battling a nid player.  From what I heard, luck allowed him to make some crazy saves and bad luck saw the nid player who could cast around 8 spells a turn, get off 2 the entire game.  

 

The DE/Eldar player took the tournament undefeated, with myself in 2nd place!  (Highest VP of the tourney I might add though ) 

 

Third place went to the IG/Knight player i faced in the 4th round, 

 

Fourth place went to my last opponent GK/IG

 

and Fifth to the Nid player.  

 

 

(i did take a few snaps! I'll try upload them when i can - 

 

Edit: Just checked- ive actually got some cool shots!!) 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dark eldar have access to some OP units that are severely undercosted. Talos are even worse that Grots.

 

Congrats on 2nd place Mort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :)

[Charlo]

Smashing result Mort, really well done! Shows that BA (in some capacity...) can compete in the big leagues ;)

 

Do you think you'd stand any kind of chance for a similar result with a pure BA etc?

[Are Verlo]

You know what, Mortt?

 

I’ve missed your batreps...

 

The first I remember was probably early 6th ed or possibly 5th.

 

Mephiston carrying the relic, chased by daemons, jumping from transport to transport.

 

Corbs and Mephiston during early 6th, teaming up as a unit. Mephiston used iron-arm you you have majority toughness 8...and corbs 2+ FnP vs smallarms.

 

And the furioso with blood talons itching for ork blood. It charged a ork mob, whiffed the attacks, took a power klaw to the face and exploded!!

[Red Fury]

Hey Mort, been a long time!  I just unpacked my Blood Angels for the first time in a couple of years and started poking around here again. 

Great to read your battle reports!  I always liked your unusual lists and brief but detailed batreps.  Congrats on taking 2nd in the tourney!

I hope you post some of the pics, I would like to see them.

 

[Lynnean]

Mort, awesome battlereports! I love to see them!

Congrats on second place!

What changes would you make to the list?

Or is it satisfactory to a point you wouldn't make any changes?

 

Cheers!

[Morticon]

Smashing result Mort, really well done! Shows that BA (in some capacity...) can compete in the big leagues

 

Do you think you'd stand any kind of chance for a similar result with a pure BA etc?

 

I hate to say this, but absolutely no way.   Deathwatch are everything marines should be, and pick up ALL the slack marine infantry lose. 

 

Their access to cheap 3++ and SIA storm bolters makes them exceptional.  The veteran squad very very rarely "made its points back" in terms of what it killed, but what it did do was soak up so much firepower that my other units could get in and do the damage - it was the combo rather than anything else.  

 

I'm sure there are combo's that work well with pure BA - the repulsor spam lists do well - but if we want to play like "old style" BA or thematically BA - I think we're completely out of luck. 

[Morticon]

Mort, awesome battlereports! I love to see them!

Congrats on second place!

What changes would you make to the list?

Or is it satisfactory to a point you wouldn't make any changes?

 

Cheers!

 

 

Great questions, thanks for asking them. 

 

I actually wouldn't charge a thing on the list in terms of how it worked.  Everything was so tight to start and worked exactly how it should. The only thing I never got any use out of, or maybe even just got one use out of, was the vanguard veteran in the DW squad.  I never ever saw a counter charge- but this was due to the opponents faced. They usually got shot off thanks to how aggressively they were played. 

 

I think if I could have found 10 more points somewhere, I would have liked to have upgraded the missiles to lascannons in retrospect, but again, largely cause I faced so many russes and knights.   

 

I'm not sure what I would do at 2000, to be honest - BUT.......for those of you that are interested....i'll be taking the 2k version of this list to the North China Open this year in May. 

[Panzer]

 

Smashing result Mort, really well done! Shows that BA (in some capacity...) can compete in the big leagues

 

Do you think you'd stand any kind of chance for a similar result with a pure BA etc?

 

I hate to say this, but absolutely no way.   Deathwatch are everything marines should be, and pick up ALL the slack marine infantry lose. 

 

Their access to cheap 3++ and SIA storm bolters makes them exceptional.  The veteran squad very very rarely "made its points back" in terms of what it killed, but what it did do was soak up so much firepower that my other units could get in and do the damage - it was the combo rather than anything else.  

 

I'm sure there are combo's that work well with pure BA - the repulsor spam lists do well - but if we want to play like "old style" BA or thematically BA - I think we're completely out of luck. 

 

 

That's the feeling I got from just reading the Deathwatch Codex as well. If it weren't for the BA fluff I would've switched to Deathwatch long time ago already lol

Pretty much the only thing BA have going for them is the Captain Smash and Sanguinary Guard (barely counting Deathcompany due the viability of Vanguard Veterans tbh). Everything else is either a thing every other Marine army has as well, sucks or is just plain better as Deathwatch.

[Morticon]

Starting with Game 6 ->

 

Libby dread moving into the lines, while Smashy is about to wreck his second Russ (Russ at the top  left has been moved back ready to be cleared after it died), supported by the Vanguard under the ruin chewing through Guard ->

 

 

Vanguard have cleared around the side, making their way through the guard lines. NDK-GM lurking behind the ruins to come sort them out.

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/IMG_20190203_174131_zpsswydoieu.jpg

 

 

Game 5:

 

My first movement phase against the DE.  Unfortunately cant see my rear set-up, but this is Hammer Anvil and shows how aggressive my list is.

 

Note the vanguard far into the enemy's lines in top left, scouts up, supported by bikers on the right, while the middle/left area sees the DW character just behind the beaconed Veterans.  Note my prime positioning here to take out the Grots  <_<  (and remember my failure for not doing so!!).  Libby dread also far up, along with Smashy who has moved well into the ranks, ready to take who he wants. 

 

I think this was going into the assault phase, as he had lost a lot of Wracks. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/IMG_20190203_135856_zps5ziwyfl9.jpg
 

GAME 4: 

He wasn't set up here, so ignore his models, but this was my set up:

 

Devs and DW Vets on cover in the bottom right terrain feature. (For those curious, the DW and BA Vets always deploy "oddly" - almost always in cover where possible, and sometimes way out of the regular area they would, knowing that they were be moved by shenanigans). 

 

Scouts at the top left for their objective, and while you cant make it out, another scout squad on the same bottom right objective. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/IMG_20190203_093110_zpsejxcpbtr.jpg

 

His set up wound up looking like this, bubbled to hell, with a slight bait on the right by the knights. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/IMG_20190203_093932_zpsvzi4texl.jpg

 

Turn 1 though....as noted....the army is plenty aggressive.   Look at how many guard are left. 

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/IMG_20190203_101902_zpsyakdykaq.jpg

 

I'll get the other 3 games up when I can! Didnt seem to get the pics off my phone.  Will get on it soon as poss! 

[lash144]

I hate to say this, but absolutely no way. Deathwatch are everything marines should be, and pick up ALL the slack marine infantry lose.

 

Their access to cheap 3++ and SIA storm bolters makes them exceptional. The veteran squad very very rarely "made its points back" in terms of what it killed, but what it did do was soak up so much firepower that my other units could get in and do the damage - it was the combo rather than anything else.

 

I'm sure there are combo's that work well with pure BA - the repulsor spam lists do well - but if we want to play like "old style" BA or thematically BA - I think we're completely out of luck.

Sad but true points you are making regarding DW.

As for pure BA: I am atm building a list which consists kind of a deathball of primaris (Intercessors and Aggressors) which move up the board supported by the FnP banner and deal with all of the infantry. Whilst the HQs deal with the heavy hitters.

Have you considered something like this or do you think it can not work?

[Morticon]

Tough to tell if it will work as a lot will revolve around your meta and environment!  Give it a bash- dont let anyone say it wont work before you've tried it out a few times. 

 

My issue though is that I face high strength, high ap, multi damage shots ALL the time. Intercessors are probably best value for points to be fair, and with the 5+ FNP, can be good, but i just see armour turn to dust too often.  Playing with storm shields honestly felt like i was playing a marine army again.  Actually getting to make 3+ saves was an awesome feeling. 

[lash144]

My thinking is: If my infantry get´s hit and wounded by a say Castellan Volcano Lance the Intercessor will be pretty much dead, despite having a FnP but I can live with that. But if the same hit hits a Repulsor I could easily lose a lot of wounds from that 1 hit. 

And a FnP on a 2W model is actually quite good against all these 2D weapons.

So I think I´ll give it a try :) I was just hoping that someone with more experience has tried this and could relate their findings back ;-)

[Panzer]

The FnP banner is great but it's still just a 5+ so it more often than not won't help much. Treat it as a bonus but don't count on it.

[Are Verlo]

The FnP banner is great but it's still just a 5+ so it more often than not won't help much. Treat it as a bonus but don't count on it.

 

But on a 2 wound model, you just have to make one out of two "5+ rolls" to survive. When intercessors are wounded by multiple 2-damage weapons, the banner will really help out.

You will suffer losses, but the banner will probably reduce the number of casualties by nearly 40% (when hit by multiple d2 weapons).

 

Edit: Off-topic. I´ll get back on track.

[Remtek]

Excellent write up! I really enjoy the vanguard vets too, even if they whiff their attack they can be so hard to remove combined with DW kill teams which also are deceptively  durable. 

[Tokugawa]

Congratulations!

 

Your idea is proved effective. To use storm shileds to overwrite biggest flaw of marine: power armor.