Slips Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It works against itself? The RoW wants you to Deepstrike your army, more or less, around a force that has established a beachhead. Cool, good concept. Couple of issues: All vehicles start in reserves. No T1 reserve rolls/deepstriking meaning you have to PRAY you dont get nuked off the table T1 because... You want to make most out of the RoW meaning you want to maximize deepstriking but, only infantry and artillery (rapiers) can start on the table so you have to find a balance of: having enough units on the table to not instantly lose BUT still make use out of your RoW The benefits are marginal at best; deepstriking big ol blobs of infantry is cool and all but you cant have a Damocles on the table T1 to help mitigate the 2d6 scatter + mishap table nor is a LR Proteus with ETA going to be available to help you make those reserve rolls more reliable. The Blind effect is only ever going to affect units with Infravisors OR people who roll TERRIBLE. Shrouded is cool, I guess. Ive used it a handful of times and each time it felt like my army was actively working against itself to function properly. At least Dreads in Dreadpods can automatically arrive on T1 to help out a bit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Ah, I would never play a game where the 'no models on the table = end of game" was a factor. If it's meant to be a deep striking army, it will be played as a rolling assault over 5-6 turns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Ah, I would never play a game where the 'no models on the table = end of game" was a factor. Problem is, that's the rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 the rules. Its a game. If a person takes an army meant to do something like deep strike as a landing force, I would never play with someone who says 'oh well you lose automatically because no one is on the board'. Only a dick would do that. That would be like asking someone to play Isstvan V and they say sure, and then declare victory before you've even started. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Well, it's 'at the end of the game turn' not 'at the end of a player turn' ... so yeah, it's tough, but its the downside to those sort of lists (whatever RoW they're using). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 the rules. Its a game. If a person takes an army meant to do something like deep strike as a landing force, I would never play with someone who says 'oh well you lose automatically because no one is on the board'. Only a dick would do that. That would be like asking someone to play Isstvan V and they say sure, and then declare victory before you've even started. I mean, agree to do what you'd like with your opponents - but the rules are there to play the game on an equal understanding. I don't think it would be a dick move to follow the printed rules for the game, especially at an event or similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Losing in the first turn before the game even gets going is never an option. An event is different, you'd never take a Hammerfall detachment if you didn't know what the mission was. You'd never take a Vigil Opertii RoW or a Dread RoW. Hammerfall is themed for Zone Mortalis/Planetstrike. Events and campaigns with unknown missions should be using different lists built for missions or its just a tournament in disguise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It sure is an option. Making a better list is also an option. Turn denial should have a downside; running down the turn limit with no interaction is a ridiculous thing to champion. Having a drawback (i.e. having to play and deploy intelligently before your guys come in or risk losing) balances out the shenanigans raven guard, alpha legion and night lords would be able to pull the beta strikes and turn denial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 The simplest thing would be just to run the game as if it was turn two. Deploy as normal, give your opponent one extra movement phase, then 'start the clock' as your dudes come teleporting, jump packing, and storm ravening in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 ....Or as outlined, you could just bring some units that deploy on the board to begin with and play to the rules. Also, people 100% take the Dread RoW to events. Last I went to there were LOADS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 That defeats the purpose of playing a game with the landing force Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 That defeats the purpose of playing a game with the landing force Hence why the RoW is bad because others do the same concept better; just look at Day of Revelations, Drop Assault Vanguard, Angels Wrath, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Establishing a spearhead with a couple Dreads in pods to prep the way for your (strikingly yellow) teleporting infantry defeats the purpose of a landing force ? EDIT: And yes, the RoW is pretty weak compared to other 'drop' rites, but it can be made to work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I fail to understand why you guys are defending a system, where a Legiones landing force calls off the attack because a dreadnaught was destroyed before the teleporters finished spinning up. That would literally never happen. This reminds me of the days when people would say the Emperor's Champion couldn't ride in a drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just seen the FQ...wow. Phalanx Wardens are so nice right now, much cheaper (much cheaper than regular breachers), cheaper axes, WS5 and 2A when recieving the charge. I have a question regarding herald. I wonder about wording of the Banner of Aquila (?) - it says models within 12" of him get +1 WS to a max of 6 INCLUDING the herald...who's WS5. Does it mean he get's no bonus from his banner? Yes he'd get the buff. Sorry, my mistake-it's WS5 max, not 6. Does he still get a bonus being WS5 already? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Establishing a spearhead with a couple Dreads in pods to prep the way for your (strikingly yellow) teleporting infantry defeats the purpose of a landing force ? EDIT: And yes, the RoW is pretty weak compared to other 'drop' rites, but it can be made to work. I mean, sure, if you can get a good amount of dreads in pods so that its not just 1 or 2 dropping down T1, go for it. But it take quite a bit of work to get the RoW...ehhh...functional and even then, you're likely not going to be making use of a fair chunk of what it provides most of the time. I fail to understand why you guys are defending a system, where a Legiones landing force calls off the attack because a dreadnaught was destroyed before the teleporters finished spinning up. That would literally never happen. This reminds me of the days when people would say the Emperor's Champion couldn't ride in a drop pod. Because its a game and the rules dictate if X happens, Y is the result. If you dont like the rules talk to your opponent about changing them, sure, go for it. But online, where we dont all have access to the same group, meta, etc. always go off of the assumption that youre not using houserules to make discussions clearer (because different groups have different houserules). Like for our Apoc Games we generally allow any unit that deepstrikes to make disordered charges so that they have a chance to do something and not get nuked off the table in the blink of an eye. But I wont go talking tactica with that it mind because it doesnt apply to 99.9% of the peeps on here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5255941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What's wrong with bringing termites/dreadclaws to create a beachhead that the rest can DS down to support? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What's wrong with bringing termites/dreadclaws to create a beachhead that the rest can DS down to support? Im not saying theres anything wrong with it; Im saying that youre pretty much not using the RoW at that point so why bother with all the drawbacks and situational bonuses you might not end up using? So, alright, consider: Load up with 3 Termites in FA Slots meaning 2 arrive T1; load up with TSS or whatever else you decide to fill your Troops/Elites slot with that arent Terminators. Load up with 3, say, 3 Levis in HS with Dreadpods; or whatever you want in Kharybdis Load up with 2 Contemptors in Dreadpods so that all 3 Levis arrive T1; this at least leaves 2 elite slots still open. This gives you, at most, 5 Deepstriking units arrive T1 automatically if you max out those slots. At this point you can basically just null deploy, if you were so inclined. Albeit extreme, maxing things out like this is so points dense how much of the RoW are you going to end up using anyways? Everytime I try to build a Hammerfall list that ticks as many checkboxes of mine as I can, it usually ends up being detrimental for me to take the RoW to begin with which is what my problem is. I want a thematic, fluffy RoW that doesnt actively hinder itself and its own performance because reasons. Have drawbacks, negatives, tradeoffs Im all about it. Like, just letting you roll for T1 reserves would go a LONG way to actually making it a worthwhile take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I fail to understand why you guys are defending a system, where a Legiones landing force calls off the attack because a dreadnaught was destroyed before the teleporters finished spinning up. That would literally never happen. This reminds me of the days when people would say the Emperor's Champion couldn't ride in a drop pod. Where a legion would call off follow up waves to a landing force, when their first wave is viciously murdered and they suffer 100% casualties on the ground? Yea, I wonder why they might reconsider their strategic approach. Actually, theres an expedition leader who has your mindset in Horus Rising; he commits wave upon wave of legion forces to an unsure fate after things went away with his initial landing force. You know, on murder where all the blood angels were killed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What's wrong with bringing termites/dreadclaws to create a beachhead that the rest can DS down to support? Im not saying theres anything wrong with it; Im saying that youre pretty much not using the RoW at that point so why bother with all the drawbacks and situational bonuses you might not end up using? So, alright, consider: Load up with 3 Termites in FA Slots meaning 2 arrive T1; load up with TSS or whatever else you decide to fill your Troops/Elites slot with that arent Terminators. Load up with 3, say, 3 Levis in HS with Dreadpods; or whatever you want in Kharybdis Load up with 2 Contemptors in Dreadpods so that all 3 Levis arrive T1; this at least leaves 2 elite slots still open. This gives you, at most, 5 Deepstriking units arrive T1 automatically if you max out those slots. At this point you can basically just null deploy, if you were so inclined. Albeit extreme, maxing things out like this is so points dense how much of the RoW are you going to end up using anyways? Everytime I try to build a Hammerfall list that ticks as many checkboxes of mine as I can, it usually ends up being detrimental for me to take the RoW to begin with which is what my problem is. I want a thematic, fluffy RoW that doesnt actively hinder itself and its own performance because reasons. Have drawbacks, negatives, tradeoffs Im all about it. Like, just letting you roll for T1 reserves would go a LONG way to actually making it a worthwhile take. That was actually a reply to Marshal Rohr... ...and if you wanna try out crappy RoW, try the AL headhunter one... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Oh god I know just how bad the Leviathal is and commiserate :< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I fail to understand why you guys are defending a system, where a Legiones landing force calls off the attack because a dreadnaught was destroyed before the teleporters finished spinning up. That would literally never happen. This reminds me of the days when people would say the Emperor's Champion couldn't ride in a drop pod.Where a legion would call off follow up waves to a landing force, when their first wave is viciously murdered and they suffer 100% casualties on the ground? Yea, I wonder why they might reconsider their strategic approach. Actually, theres an expedition leader who has your mindset in Horus Rising; he commits wave upon wave of legion forces to an unsure fate after things went away with his initial landing force. You know, on murder where all the blood angels were killed. How is a single dreadnaught ‘visciously murdered’? Let’s be generous and say two or three dreadnaughts hit the ground in pods first because there’s some delay on the teleporter deck, the entire battle is the first wave. Not the models in the first turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 does any of this have to do with the FAQ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Rohr, if all you have is a pod and dread you straight up deserve to lose every game you play. "Don't get tabled" is the most basic rule in winning, and here you are saying the rule stupid because you want to only have a two models on the table and not have to have the same disadvantage Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 In relation to dreads and pods, am I correct in understanding that to put dreads in pods, the maximum talon size is one and, therefore, each dread coming in via drop pod takes up one elite slot? If so, this is an irritating change for my planned Orbital Assault list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353795-age-of-darkness-faq/page/3/#findComment-5256331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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