Cadian Heavy Weapons

[Wassa]

Is anyone else torn between having heavy weapons on their tanks vs on infantry units?

 

Accuracy wise, having them on infantry with Take Aim that can reroll anything has a 75% chance to hit, which is essentially BS2.5+, and better than a Tank Commander. If you have a firebase at the back with Creed then this really shines.

 

A Heavy Weapons team is either 6 or 8 points (for some reason), and then the price of the heavy weapon on top. The downside is that the Infantry Squads or Heavy Weapons Squad is more fragile, but to be honest I have yet to have someone actually target them with all the bubble wrapping.

 

Though on Leman Russes where you're forced to pay for a Heavy Bolter anyway, the upgrade to a Lascannon only costs 12 points.

 

 

What do you guys think?

[MrZakalwe]

I tend to keep my Russes as cheap as possible with a hull mounted heavy bolter and no sponsons as you are really buying them for the turret guns. I'm not sure if that's the right move considering the incredible efficiency of plasma sponsons but I'm not inspired to change the plan quite yet. I find infantry spend a lot of their time moving so most squads wont make good use of heavy weapons but you'll always have some backfield squads for deepstrike screening and bubblewrapping that sit still all game near the back of the board and I think not putting heavy weapons on those guys is a waste (besides they will probably be close to my Old Grudges warlord so he may as well have something to use his orders on, eh?).

 

Generally I find points spent on vehicle specific weapons (battlecannons, earthshakers etc) to be more worthwhile than anything else I can spend the points on.

 

Mortar teams are the exception, of course.

[Shamansky]

I found myself hating tanks as long as they are the 'first blood' in most games. Maybe that's my ignoring cover and -1 to hit meta with all ground level of ruins is counted as a LOS blocker or my bad positioning, but if tanks survive to shoot they either crippled to almost useless state, or got no proper targets in range, more often tanks are simply dead. I rarely get their points back from the opponent and those are many points for the Guard. Cadian tanks are even worse. They need to be stationary to get their benefit so they should be in LOS with enemy from the start, which makes them the first blood. Alternatively they do not get rerolls or even get -1 to hit for moving out of cover. D6 weapons need orders to reroll number of shots which either demand a TC or limits the weapons to solid_number_of_shots types which are Punisher or Annihilator (if FW is not banned) cannons because the rest are a joke in 8th edition. That's why i take Tallarn (Outflanking squadron of Punishers is awesome) or Catachan tanks depending on weapons used. 

I guess you get the point.

[Wassa]

I have the complete opposite, my tanks absolutely demolish the opponent.

 

Since CA I mostly run my tanks as TCs and the benefits have been amazing. I normally keep my Battle Cannons on the back line to take advantage of the 72" range which normally keeps them out of harms way unless the opponent uses some form of transport. Punishers/Demolishers you have to hide, and roll out just under 5" to get the benefit, but then pop the Relic of Lost Cadia to regain rerolling 1. 

 

Though these strategies do leave the other heavy weapons out of range or suffer the -1 to hit penalty which is another bonus point for having them in troops.

[HallofStovokor]

The only heavy weapons I have with the infantry keyword are my mortar squads and a single lascannon I keep on my back squad with a sniper rifle that protects the artillery. They aren't particularly good at moving, so they are a liability for mobility. The direct fire weapons have to be in line of sight to shoot, so they're going to die quickly. Mortars can stay inside buildings and out of sight when shooting. This makes them the best heavy weapon teams. My tanks and artillery are where all my big guns sit. My vets are carrying special weapons which qualify as anti-tank and every infantry squad that I use as objective grabbers use grenade launchers. This gives them better anti-horde and moderate anti-heavy infantry capabilities.

[Gothical]

Don't forget that although you may be forced to move you can use the Cadian Stratagem on those tanks to mitigate the penalty.

 

I try to run a mix - my basic Russes are kept cheap with Heavy Bolter and Heavy Stubber, my (Commander) Executioner is fully kitted with Las/Plas, my Punisher is Heavy Bolters all-round and I am still experimenting with the other variants.

 

For my infantry I tend to include some Heavy Weapon Squads (2 Mortar, 1 Lascannon/Autocannon/Heavy Bolter [depending on my mood] squads), some infantry squads with a heavy (Auto/HB/Missile) and some with just a Special. I tend to use Militarum Tempestus for taking most objectives so infantry mobility is less of an issue whereas having long-ranged punch to trigger stratagems and use Orders is very handy. Naturally if the situation calls for it I will MMM the Special-only squads, or move everyone up in one solid mass to overwhelm and establish a new static position.

 

I used to back all this up with some Sentinels before 8th, since vehicles didn't have the moving penalty, now I am experimenting with Scout sentinels using Autocannons, Lascannons and Missile Launchers (using the Scout move to get into a good position to fire stationary in future turns).

[Aleczander_G]

I have been using tank commander battle cannon or plasma russ' with a hull Lascannon to decent effect. The Las is either hit or miss, mostly miss, but it's nice when it works.