Are drop pods viable again?

[Berzul]

Hey guys.

 

Pretty simple question.

With the reduction in costs, and the beta rules for bolters on vehicles, are Drop Pods viable at all right now? Has anyone give them a try lately? How has your experience been?

[Solrac]

Short answer no.

 

They are still 65 points worth of an immobile T6 vehicle that can still no longer transport dreadnoughts and only transport power armour. The drop pod really has no value after its deployed even if it is dropped on an objective they are too easy to kill.

 

If they had their old drop pod assault rule where they could drop first turn as an exception and dropped to around 40pts then they would be worth it in my eyes.

 

 

[sneakybamsen]

I'd have to get time to do a game with tacticals and drop pods to give my take on this, but at least now they are cheaper than rhinos...

[cernunnos]

If you accept a tactical squads primary role is objective grabbing then I can see the use of a drop pod. Allows you to keep the unit off the board until Turn 3, keeping it safe from all those anti-MEQ weapons. In addition the number of opposing guns should be reduced by that stage too making it more likely to be able to fulfil the role.

 

Is that worth the points though? Tactical squads are already expensive if that is all that is expected of them. Adding a drop pod too only exacerbates this and reduces the rest of the force.

[Berzul]

Well, you can get 10 stock marines for 130 to footslog the table, taking wounds towards an objective, or you can take 5 marines in a pod for the same price. They make it straight to the objective, and add some 8 T6 wounds for their durability...

 

I would not consider it a bad trade off.

[Knight Angels]

they are indeed very viable for a thematic assault on an enemy stronghold position

[Skorp]

Well, you can get 10 stock marines for 130 to footslog the table, taking wounds towards an objective, or you can take 5 marines in a pod for the same price. They make it straight to the objective, and add some 8 T6 wounds for their durability...

 

I would not consider it a bad trade off.

These options have to be compared to 55 points for 5 scouts that can start on or near the objective. There is something the tacticals bring but not for 130 vs 55.

[Berzul]

Well, yeah. Scouts are cheaper, and can scout.

 

But,

 

1) They have a 4+ save, not a 3+

2) They do not get the objective grabbing hunk of steel at T6 and 8W

3) Can begin being targeted and wiped out T1 in the fight

4) Cannot react quickly to how objectives are drawn on the fight.

 

A dropped tactical squad has a better save, places the opponent in an uncertainty dilema on where they will drop (specialy if you use Secret Agenda), and can be dropped when needed after you know where you need to go.

 

I'd say the scout argument is strong, but definetly not the strongest.

[BlackTriton]

There is no argument for the drop pod.

It simply doesn't do anything you cannot do another way, usually for cheaper and better.

 

In theory, the cheap point price and toughness couple with its nonexistant offence mean its unlikely to be targeted and could be used as a road block in addition to a delivery method.

 

In practice, they are a safe heaven for the enemy, they can charge the pod, be unshootable and you cannot move... especially bad if you are near an objective.

[Solrac]

Well, yeah. Scouts are cheaper, and can scout.

 

But,

 

1) They have a 4+ save, not a 3+

2) They do not get the objective grabbing hunk of steel at T6 and 8W

3) Can begin being targeted and wiped out T1 in the fight

4) Cannot react quickly to how objectives are drawn on the fight.

 

A dropped tactical squad has a better save, places the opponent in an uncertainty dilema on where they will drop (specialy if you use Secret Agenda), and can be dropped when needed after you know where you need to go.

 

I'd say the scout argument is strong, but definetly not the strongest.

 

For pick up/casual games sure. Not for any kind of Tournament play.

 

3 Scout squads are 155 and fills my battalion. Your drop pod and 5 dudes is 130 and I still have to spend more points to fill my battalion. Sorry the Scout argument is the strongest.

 

You don't take scouts to react to how objectives are drawn (I'm assuming you mean Maelstrom games) that is what the rest of your army is supposed to be for.

 

Scouts are there to block enemy infiltrators and hide outside of LOS until you need them to jump on a nearby objective and give you 5 CP, nothing more.

 

Even with 3+ save those 5 marines will die when the same amount of small arms targets them. Also the drop pod argument is weak. Sure they can sit on an objective but since they can't attack and only have a storm bolter for overwatch protection your opponent may as well charge it with guardsman or other weak troop choices to gain extra movement and grab the objective for very little risk.

 

At minimum it is a very easy kill point for a maelstrom and ITC game.

 

So to reiterate, drop pods are fun and useable in casual/pick up games. They are still not competitive enough for Tournaments (which is what I assumed you were asking when the question was are drop pods viable).

[G8Keeper]

Bear in mind with the advice here we all play in different meta environments. Some will play tournaments, some random PUG's and some will play with a close knit group of friends. Take the advice that fits your style of play. It's your game.

[Master Toddius]

The marketing department controls what units are good (to make sales) and what units are not so good (market is saturated). The goal for the next few years is people repurchasing a space marine army because its the most popular by far, ie Primaris. So drop pods + whatever isn't going to fall in line with their sales direction. 

That being said; I might try a drop pod with 5 vets with SB's to grab or contest an objective. Its not going to be efficient, but its for funzies.

[domsto]

One think we should not forget is how big the Drop pod actually is. And you need the drop it basically 11" away from the enemy so the Marines in it can hop out. This makes it pretty hard to bring it on the Table Turn 2-3. Every Enemy with enough experience can cover the Table (At least i do that when i play against DS heavy Forces) so the Drop Pods comes noway near a Objective.

I once had a game where my Opponent was forces to drop his 3 Drop pods into his own Deployment zone Turn 3, because there was not enough Space on the Table to Land.

So i think the Drop pod hinders you more as it grants you benefits.

[sneakybamsen]

There is the case where, when objectives are placed in a way that allows it, a drop pod with a tac squad can grab two objectives at the end of your movement phase. Very handy if drawing cards like Supremacy in maelstrom. Of course, it is situational at best, and for competitive play, I too struggle to find a way to use pods properly due to the current rules.

 

But I do have a couple painted, and when I get to play casual games again, I think I want to bring them to the table. For fun and because they became marginally better with CA and beta bolters.

[Grand Master Raziel]

There might be an edge case for using them against Knights. Dev Squad with multi meltas in a pod. Drop them within 12", open up, hope for good rolls. The Knight player can't afford to ignore them. You can stick 2 of them in 1 pod, so maybe.

[Isual]

There might be an edge case for using them against Knights. Dev Squad with multi meltas in a pod. Drop them within 12", open up, hope for good rolls. The Knight player can't afford to ignore them. You can stick 2 of them in 1 pod, so maybe.

Well you are hitting on 4s and wounding on 4s,statistical 2 wounding Hits against a 5++ to 3++ target. With a Potential 2 to 12 damage. For close to 500 points showing up at turn 2 at best that sounds questionable for me.

[shandwen]

I'd also compare it to a squad of reavers dropping in late game. They pay for the primaris bonuses, and for the deep strike, but that should end up cheaper than tacs with a pod. The lack of being a troop for force org stinks, but obsec shouldn't matter by that turn.

[Isual]

Ok, here comes a long post I was thinking about for some time now. I want to summarize what made drop pods great in the past and what they lost in the transition to this current state of the game.

 

If you have different opinions I would be glad to hear them from you.

 

So here it comes:

 

What was great about the drop pod in the past:

 

They were basically free:

Well what is more to say about a free lunch drop pod?

 

Drop pod assault:

Bringing half of your drop pods in turn one is obviously great, especially back in the days when you had to roll for reserves to arrive.

 

Being incredible safe:

Because you could only die in a drop pod if you fell from the table with it you could ram it in the tiniest spaces without endangering your "payload".

Even if you didn't arrive on point the unit within could do a full movement to correct this.

 

The possibility of being Troops:

 

The fact that drop pods became Troops if they were attached to a Troop squad made them really good. Due to obsec in combination with being basically free meant you could throw them even empty on any objective and forget it for a while. Your enemy needed troops of its own to even deny it.

 

Well ... what's left of it?

 

 

To be honest ... nothing.

 

Drop pods are relatively expensive, even after CA18.

They lost their unique point of being a safe shock unit because everyone is now.

They lost their possibility of first-turn show up, at begin of 8th because everyone could, now completely.

They and their Unit have both be outside of 9" of enemy models, which is a huge limiting factor. Embarked units can only disembark normally.

They are a non moving one model unit and can barely hold an objective anymore.

 

It's a little sad because they are such a defining model for the Space Marine faction as a whole. They lost anything that made them stand out, just like Terminators did. However, that's a topic for another day.

 

I spare you further rambling and I'm really interested what you think about my points.

[Trevak Dal]

Do drop pods count as a transport? If so could you use empty ones as a means of "deepstrike deployed terrain" to kinda rules screw people? So they come down, block line of sight, give characters cover, and force the enemy to deal with them.

[sneakybamsen]

Do drop pods count as a transport? If so could you use empty ones as a means of "deepstrike deployed terrain" to kinda rules screw people? So they come down, block line of sight, give characters cover, and force the enemy to deal with them.

 

Except the doors count as open, so they don't really block LoS.

[Berzul]

Do the rules state that you HAVE to open the doors?

[UtariOnzo]

Do the rules state that you HAVE to open the doors?

Yes. Drop pod assault rule specifically states passengers must disembark immediately after deep striking and those that can’t fit outside are immediately slain. Open doors all around make it a bit of a crap line of sight breaker and as a transport you don’t get a choice about it opening.

 

Edit: I mean, technically you could choose not to embark any units in it, but given the fact the doors would auto-open anyways if any people were inside, I think it’s a bit rules-lawyery and very gamey to suggest they don’t open simply because you chose not to put anyone in it. Use such an interpretation at your own risk

[Berzul]

Well, I am a lawyer.... it kinda pulls at a very deepcore of my life, to read that it COULD be argued....

[Helias_Tancred]

I've used them to deliver 5 company vets with combi-meltas backed up by a five man combat squad of tacticals. The armor dies. After that I've had them last as long as two additional turns. I'm actually a fan of them again for specific purposes such as that.

[Skorp]

I still plan on building and painting my drop pod along with:

 

3x vets, 2x dual plasma pistol, 1x plasma pistol storm shield

3x vets, 2x dual plasma pistol, 1x plasma pistol storm shield

Company Champion

Company Champion

Apothecary

Librarian Warlord

 

4x rerolling charge chances with righteous repugnance, can return dead storm shields with apothecary, champions can heroically intervene. Sprinkle in other heroes and jump packs for max effect. I know it wont be great but it will be fun. Also less exciting without first turn deep strike.

 

Someone also once mentioned drop pods can be a good third turn linebreaker. Not for this list though.