Prot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I know this is a long shot... perhaps a REALLY long shot, but what units would you guess might be legal in a pure Thousand Sons army from that boxset? I know this is mostly about Abaddon, and Black Legion, and Chaos Space Marines by extension, but there is still (hopefully) some potential for some of these units to spill over into Thousand Sons. Possessed aren't typically anything I'm a fan of, but that Venom Crawler just looks cool to me, and would fit in with my Daemon Engine enthusastic Thousand Sons! What do you guys think? Any chance? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Much in the way the new Primaris will no doubt be FAQd into SW/ BA/ DA/ DW, I'd hope at least a few of the units will be FAQd into 1KS & DG... However I wouldn't be too hopeful. Possessed may get an updated profile for DG, but as they weren't in 1KSons before (plus fluff) I can't see them being added. Oblits are a no for both, as are the generic chaos marines/ chosen. The Venom Crawler is certainly the most likely (seeing as 1KSons basically just use the default engines anyway) but who knows? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Eh you can't really compare Primaris and those models 1:1. Primaris are a complete new type of unit while these are mostly just updated models for already existing units. So unless TSons can already use regular Chaos Marines and Obliterators I see little chance of TSons getting access to them with this box. Maybe the new Daemon Engine, though I get the feeling GW wants to separate the big legion Codexes from the main CSM Codex more than they do on the loyalist side so I wouldn't hold my breath there either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I hope we get the engine. The books are already very distinct and TS don't exactly have a wealth of options. Anything new could be a big help and we do already use engines. If we don't get them, hopefully we will get a release shortly giving us more options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I do like the new venom crawler though really interested in the oblierator looking thing. Is that truly a new oblit? Don't have my dex and can't remember if we can take oblits because i disliked the old models and never considered them. Though if these are new oblits I can see myself getting some if 1k sons can take them in a 1k sons attachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It is 100% for sure an obliterator. GW identified it as such. And we can't take them currently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I really only suspect we will only have the engine. On that note, I wonder with the engine and new summoner psyker, and the info they dropped about bolstering daemon summoning....I wonder if summoning will get an update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5255968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On that note, I wonder with the engine and new summoner psyker, and the info they dropped about bolstering daemon summoning....I wonder if summoning will get an update. Would be nice but probably not. The new Slaanesh Daemon character was already about summoning and it gave only +3 to the dice roll ... which would be great if there wasn't all the other things that make summoning suck. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Unless they change something in the core summoning rules to make it less pointless, without invalidating the slannesh musician guy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Unless they change something in the core summoning rules to make it less pointless, without invalidating the slannesh musician guy This. I dont think it's too much of a stretch that GW will end up changing the core mechanics. Whatever form that may take. Man I hope that the horror split rule changes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It really makes no sense to have horrors the way they are. Why pay full points for a unit that is basically in reserve but your opponent decides when it comes in? They should make horrors 10 ppm (roughly) and make splitting free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It really makes no sense to have horrors the way they are. Why pay full points for a unit that is basically in reserve but your opponent decides when it comes in? They should make horrors 10 ppm (roughly) and make splitting free. Agreed, also exactly this. Summoning feels more like a punishment over just having the models there in the first place. Example: if you have 20 pinks, 10 die, you get 20 blues. Then when morale comes up(let's assume you dont spend cp to auto pass), then you will likely make the blues flee and miss out on the brims coming in. I also wish gw would give the smite rule that sons and grey knights enjoy to tzeentch daemon detachments. Your just punishing your heralds and whatnot if you let the pinks attempt it first. And your looking at maybe ..maybe only getting one smite off on a single pink unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 What do you guys mean by your opponent decides when the horrors come in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Well, if your opponent never attacks your horrors when you set aside points to split them, it's like having reserves you can't bring in. So ultimately your opponent has to enable you to split them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 A good point on that. Seems splits best use is objective sitting as a denial unit, if one is willing to invest in points for horrors that don't get a chance to split. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Summoning and splitting horrors are two different things, the venom crawler could assist with summoning in some way or another, but that has nothing to do with horrors splitting. You are right that you reserve points that might never see play, in theory that can happen with summoning too, but when summoning something like Flamers of Tzeentch for instance, you can pull tricks on your opponent, even if the summoning character had to remain stationary. That's a pretty big distinction between points reserved for splitting and points reserved for summoning - with the latter, you have options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 There are barely any tricks you can pull with summoning you couldn't also do by just deep striking that unit but in return you forgo all the bonuses you'd get by simply taking a daemon detachment (CP, loki, access to Stratagems, etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 True, but the tzeentch loki is worthless anyway, so at least that's not an issue. It's only the lost CP,and the summoning loops. However, tzeentch daemons are honestly not different enough from one another to justify the hassle for the gained flexibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 I'm going to confess in 7th ed I used to use a Daemon detachment, but in 8th I really don't get it with Thousand Sons. It never seemed to be something I should do in 8th. I do see them at tournaments but they're 90% Nurgle Daemons in Thousand Sons.... it's just personal, but I can't do that. And for Tzeentch Daemons I've just never seen a strong angle to take here. Maybe I just feel more at home with the Thousand Sons codex? My hope was the VenomCrawler would actually act as a sort of... homing beacon/lighthouse for the Summoning purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Agreed. My hope as well. I wish GW would just tweak some of the issues tzeentch daemons have. Where I draw my own personal line for competative play is fluff. I will never use nurgle daemons with thousand sons or ally in death guard. Just my own personal preference to play 100% Tzeentch. And I've been experimenting with chariots, flames and lord of change with reduced points costs with ok results. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Yeah, I wouldn't ally Nurgle in. I'm not that into the Nurgle aesthetic and it's too jarring in the fluff. I've only recently started working on Tzeentch Daemons as allies for my TS so I have zero tabletop experience, but on paper they do add some needed utility so once I move into my new place and get the hobby room set up I'm going to try to rush getting the rest built and primed. Daemons are in a bit of a strange spot, though - overall they have a lot of options but each God is basically a unique faction so they end up not having many choices without bringing multiple gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The Daemon codex suffers from being designed as basically supplement to chaos marines (iirc they used to be in the same codex originally even?) and GW never really added much to them ever since they made them their own separate Codex. Instead they now gave us even more reasons to not mix different god's daemons in the same detachment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 The Daemon codex suffers from being designed as basically supplement to chaos marines (iirc they used to be in the same codex originally even?) and GW never really added much to them ever since they made them their own separate Codex. Instead they now gave us even more reasons to not mix different god's daemons in the same detachment It's funny you mention that because on the surface I wouldn't disagree with you but post CA2019 data from FLG gives them like the highest win percentage for any single faction if I'm not mistaken. Daemons are honestly good...except slaanesh of course. I just wish summoning work a bit differently because it could work as a good toolbox mechanic summoning what you need on the fly but it's just not dependable to use it and expect to win most of your games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5256977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 I think FLG is extremely misleading. Their faction stats are so wonky I wouldn’t pay any attention to them. There’s a whole pile of lists called all sorts of faction names to gain points for the faction spans the common element was the Castellan. I did find a great finish by a Thousand Sons army that wasn’t very Thousand Sons. I watched a streamed game from LVO featuring a Thousand Sons army. He had a Magnus, Mort, plaguebearer army. To me there’s a difference between being technically a faction and actually truly playing the faction. It’s been said in other areas of the forum so it’s not worth going into depth here but soup is still massive. Back on point.... I brought up hopes for the box set because I’m kind of running out of steam on TS. My lists have a great core but not much else can really change and still stay true to TS. I may go to Black Legion more seriously or focus more on my Ultramarines / AdMech. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5257002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 AdMech are in the same boat. Maybe worse since you don't even have psychic powers to pick! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353864-thousand-sons-and-shadow-spear-boxset/#findComment-5257021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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