New to 40k, a few DW starter questions

[Rune Keeper]

Hi Xenos hunters. I decided to take the plunge and start playing 40k. As a huge fan of X-Com and Delta Green the Deathwatch is one of my favorite groups. I'd like to play a mostly Primaris force, which I know may not be ideal but I really love the Primaris look so there it is. I'm a little unsure where to start. I've heard that the Dark Imperium boxed set marines are built differently than standard Primaris. Is it possible to get Deathwatch should pads on them, and if so is it difficult? I'm a total novice to miniature building. If not, would you suggest I just get the rulebook and Codex and just start with the Deathwatch Intercessor kit and kind of go from there?

I was also curious about the Chapter symbols on the right shoulder pad. I don't know what kind of transfer decals come with the Primaris boxes. Is there one available that has several different Chapter symbols on it? Do most DW players just paint the various Chapter symbols freehand?

A final question, since I'm going mostly Primaris I'm just curious what the weak points of such a Deathwatch army would be that I should keep in mind. I've read taking standard marine characters is still a good idea because they're much more flexible and I will probably do that, but I'd like to keep the main force Primaris.

Thank you :)

[Sloeberjong]

Well, with CA out primaris aren't the most optimized units to play. However, I play them exclusively and they work just fine in a not too competitive environment. It's going to be hard to change the shoulder pads for the Dark Imperium intercessors since they're easy to build and the shoulder pads are moulded to the body. For the Intercessor multipart kit it's no big deal since the shoulder pads come separate. I've got mine mostly from DI sets and I also use an entirely different paintscheme. For my club it's not a big deal as long as you mention it. A cool looking army always beats exactly fitting the fluff in our case. Just play whatever codex you like with the army of the colours you like. Equipment wise my army is as good as WYSIWYG (except colours and shoulder pads). So I don't know how your buddies think about that, but otherwise the DI stuff is a pretty good deal. I would suggest at least one regular intercessor kit though, it's got some bits in it for auxillary grenade launchers and assault bolt rifles and such. 

 

As for chapter symbols you'll probably need to collect them from you gaming buddies. There are some in the different marine boxes, but in DI there's mostly Ultramarines. So more than Ultra's, Dark Angels and Blood Angels is going to be rare. They used to be part of some kits, but not standard for now I believe. I've got my own chapter so I don't really use a lot of different chapter decals. Otherwise, yeah, freehanding it is...

 

As for the weak points of a DW army it's mostly AT. You can use Venerable Dreads with twin lascannons and missle launcher, Redemptor Dread with Macro Plasma cannon (mathematically equal to TLLC, tho a bit more dangerous), Repulsors with lascannon loadout. Just remember to not bring just one of them since that will get shot to pieces. Alternatively you can use an "Interblaster" squad, an intercessor squad with 4 or 5 hellblasters (if 4 then also bring a plasma Inceptor). I can recommend that squad anyway, it's awesome, especially when supported by a Watch Master and a +1 wound strat. 

 

Not necessarily AT, but an "Intergressor" squad with 4-5 aggressors (and/or 1 Inceptor) make for a toughness 5 dakka unit that'll murder some hordes. Lot's of fun to play I can tell you.

 

Now, competitively speaking the veteran squad is the best choice if you arm them with storm bolters and stormshields. They'll require some work though, because that equipment doesn't come standard in any marine box. You'll need to scrounge it or buy 3rd party stuff. It's not the end all be all though, but it does depend if you want to go to lots of tournaments or play with buddies in a friendly non-competitive environment. 

 

I hope this helps, good luck on your endeavors!

[Brother Cruoris]

If you are looking for shoulder pads there are a few in the deatwatch veteran box. Someone who plays DW probably have a ton of them over. I know I do at least. =)

You can also check out pop goes the monkey on shapeway. He has a lot of 3rd party shoulders. Unless you free hand that is. =)

Here's a link.

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/popbits?section=--+Deathwatch+Sets&sort=

[Syward]

Greetings Rune Keeper and welcome to the Death Watch! =][=

 

I play DW as a Primaris only force and while they’re not as competitive as min/maxing with StormBolters & Storm Shields, they still perform very well and are a ton of fun to play. Our SIA (Special Issue Ammunition) makes our units very flexible as does our Mission Tactics and stratagems.

 

To answer your questions:

• The DI box is a great value, and has a solid core of models. (I picked it up myself) However as mentioned by others, the models are the ‘easy-to-build’ varieties and would require a fair amount of cutting & shaving to place DW shoulders on them. BUT – you should be able to just paint a basic version the DW logo over a silver base pretty easily if you go that route. (I’m using my DI box marines as a standard Codex:Space Marine force)

• For chapter symbols, I’d highly recommend picking up a box or two of the Death Watch Kill Team kits. The kit comes with 19 different plastic molded chapter badges which fit perfectly on the Primaris Marines. The kit is fairly inexpensive for the amount of extra bits you get from it too, plus you’ll have a reserve of standard marine Vets for future expansion. IMO though, the kit is worth the $35 USD just for the Chapter & DW shoulders it contains. You can also check out Shapeways POP Goes the Monkey like Brother Cruoris suggested, they have a really large selection of chapter shoulders. (I haven’t used them yet, but plan to make an order)

• The biggest “weakness” for the DW is AT – however, we do have some really good units and options to fit that role. The Venerable Dreadnought with TLLC (Twin Linked Lascannon) and ML (Missile Launcher) does a great job, as does the amount of plasma we can bring to the table as a Primaris force. I personally wouldn’t recommend the Repulsor unless you really like how the model looks. It’s extremely expensive for what it offers, and as mentioned, if you only bring one, it’ll get focused down before it’s likely to make up it’s points cost. DW doesn’t really have a need for transports due to our Teleportarium stratagem, which allows you to pay CP (Command Points) to  deep strike 3 units that wouldn’t normally be allowed to deep strike.

 

I would highly recommend using the “Interblaster” squads. I run two of them as the core of my army and deep strike them using the Teleportarium stratagem with a Primaris Watch Capt. (The Capt. allows you to reroll failed hit rolls, and allows you to overcharge the plasma & reduce the risk of killing your own units) I use 5x Intercessors w/Bolt Rifles, 4x Hellblasters w/Plasma Incinerators and 1x Inceptor w/Plasma Exterminator. The Bolt Rifles & Plasma Incinerators are rapid fire weapons, so if you DS the unit within half range you get double the shots. That means you’re getting between 10 – 14 plasma shots from the unit (8 shots from the Hellblasters + 2-6 from the Inceptor) which can really mess up the AT target or any high Toughness/Wound target really. I would recommend the Inceptor simply to allow your unit to fallback and shoot if they get charged. (this unit loves to shoot and needs to be able to shoot each turn)  

 

I’ve had great success with my “Interblaster” squads, they’re murder squads, they are a very frightening unit to have suddenly pop up in rapid fire range, two of them even more so. My “Interblasters” squads regularly make up more than their points cost in enemy kills, and are often my MVP units for the game. I can’t recommend them enough. And a single box of Intercessors & a single box of Helblasters will give you two of them (if you don’t take the Inceptor).

 

I also run with two Venerable Dreadnoughts, one with TLLC+ML and the other with a DCCW (Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon) + Plasma Cannon or Assault Cannon depending on what I’m going up against. (if my opponent has a lot of troops, I'll take the Assault Cannon, if they have a lot of high toughness/wound units I take the Plasma Cannon) I  also take a Primaris Librarian to buff and for Mortal Wounds and I have two other 5 man Intercessor Squads right now that make up my back line with my TLLC Dreadnought. I’m likely to expand the Intercessor Squads to be the “Intergressor” squads because of the ungodly amount of shooting they can spit out as a unit.

 

A note on the viability of the Primaris, while they’re not as min/max effective as the Standard Vets w/SS+SB, they are a really tough unit to take down. The Primaris Marines have 2 wounds each which makes them a really tough unit to take out when there’s a high number of them. A lot of units can struggle to effectively chew through 20 wounds with a 3+ save which gives them staying power, especially if you have an even scarier unit (i.e.Dreadnoughts) or several 20 wound units that your enemy has to choose between.

 

​I'd also recommend grabbing a couple of the Primaris Upgrade kits (Space Wolves or Blood Angels) to get your hands on some Chain Swords which are free for our Intercessor Sgts & give them an extra attack in CC. Plus the kits give you some shoulders with chapter logos on them too.

 

 

Let us know if you have any other questions, we're all really happy to help. I'm fairly new to playing 40K too, (started playing last may/june) and the people here have been really great & helpful.  And again, welcome to the Deathwatch (and 40K in general)!  =][=

[Rune Keeper]

Thank you everyone :) If I may ask, I didn't realize normal and Primaris shoulder pads were compatible, are there any other parts that work that way? The legs don't look the same size, and I can't really tell on heads, torsos, or arms.

[Syward]

Thank you everyone If I may ask, I didn't realize normal and Primaris shoulder pads were compatible, are there any other parts that work that way? The legs don't look the same size, and I can't really tell on heads, torsos, or arms.

 

The shoulder pads are fully interchangeable and so are the heads, everything else is too small. The backpacks from the standard marines would fit and work, but they're a little smaller  than the Primaris backpacks.However, you can do some converting work - the hands are the same size, it's just the arms and legs that are longer on the Primaris Marines. So you can cut the and off a power sword from a standard Marine for example, and replace the Primaris hand with it. (Like I did on my Watch Captain - the hand and sword is from the DW Kill Team Kit which are standard size marines) 

[Rune Keeper]

Thank you, I appreciate all the fantastic advice. If I were to get the Dark Imperium set, is it difficult to shave down the shoulder pads and attach a DW pad? Any trick to doing it or just take a hobby knife and slowly and methodically shave it down and try the pad until it fits?

I was also curious about something I read, that some armies are very Command Point hungry and others less so. How would you rate us on the 'hungry' scale?

[anarchistscourge]

We like to use our command points but we can do well without having to spend like 5 a turn. The plus one to wound strategy’s cost 2CP and you probably want to use one every turn

[Syward]

Thank you, I appreciate all the fantastic advice. If I were to get the Dark Imperium set, is it difficult to shave down the shoulder pads and attach a DW pad? Any trick to doing it or just take a hobby knife and slowly and methodically shave it down and try the pad until it fits?

 

I was also curious about something I read, that some armies are very Command Point hungry and others less so. How would you rate us on the 'hungry' scale?

 

I'd say that shaving shoulders off of the DI box models wouldn't be that difficult, however it would be very time consuming. When I have to shave shoulders down like that I use a hobby knife and make careful ruff cuts to start, then smaller more precise cuts, then finally some very fine grit sandpaper or a hobby file to finish shaping it. Also, keep in mind the DI box only comes with a Captain in Gravis armor, which we unfortunately can't use as a DW HQ choice. (You could use him as a stand-in/proxy for a Watch Capt though and he makes a good base for some conversions) So you'll still likely want to pick up a HQ model or two and a box of Intercessors so you can fill out a battalion detachment (2x HQ + 3x Troop). Also the Primaris Lieutenants that the DI box comes in don't have an equal unit in the DW codex (because our Mission Tactics fits the roll of the Lieutenants), but they can be used as either Sgts, or as a Watch Capt stand in. Also, the Prmaris Ancient doesn't have an entry in the DW codex either.

 

If you buy the DI box + another box of Intercessors and use the Lieutenants as stand in's for Watch Capts, you can have a basic Battalion detachment + some extra models for ~$220 USD - but you'll either need to do some converting work or learn to paint the DW logo. If you buy 2 HQ + 2 box of intercessors + 1 box of Hellblasters + the rule book, that'll set you back ~$310 USD and give you a basic Battalion detachment. You won't have as many extra models to use but you won't have the converting work to do. The DI box is a really good value to start out with. 

 

Personally, I'd get the DI box, but wouldn't try to shave the shoulders down, I'd just paint them with the DW logo and then slowly expand from there. You can always go back and convert them if you decide the DW is what you'd like to play, or slowly replace them with full kits w/DW shoulders & repaint them as a standard Codex: SM army.

 

As far as Command Points go, The DW has some great stratagems and you'll want to make sure you have the CP for them. I'd say you'd want to at least take a battalion detachment which will give you a total of 8 CP to use. The Lord of Hidden Knowledge Warlord trait is good way to help recover your CP spent during the game too. Playing a Primaris force, you'll likely want to leverage the Teleportarium stratagem (1 CP for each unit you DS) to help with your mobility and board control. Wisdom of the Ancients (1 CP to re-roll to hit rolls of a 1 on Dreadnoughts) is another one that comes in handy quite a bit as well as our various Doctrine stratagems (2 CP to add +1 to wound rolls) and Adaptive Tactics (2 CP to change the Mission Tactic) is another good one that you may end up using (Although clever use of The Tome of Ectoclades can make it so that you don't have to use Adaptive Tactics & save the CP).

 

* I've only been playing 40k since last May, but I've been involved in the converting/modeling/painting aspect off and on since 1996.

[Rune Keeper]

Thanks again :)

[SwashBuccaneer]

I was a newbie to the hobby and had no issues getting the DI marines' left shoulders hacked off.

 

Just went slowly and removed small sections at a time and kept fitting the deathwatch pauldron on top of the area to see where it needed trimmed the most.

 

I used my sprue clippers mostly when I did mine and used sanding sticks to smooth it down. Was scary at first but after the first couple i was tearing through them.

 

I think I wound up using all but a few models from it before buying other stuff.

[Black Knight]

I was a newbie to the hobby and had no issues getting the DI marines' left shoulders hacked off.

 

Just went slowly and removed small sections at a time and kept fitting the deathwatch pauldron on top of the area to see where it needed trimmed the most.

 

I used my sprue clippers mostly when I did mine and used sanding sticks to smooth it down. Was scary at first but after the first couple i was tearing through them.

 

I think I wound up using all but a few models from it before buying other stuff.

 

But for the love of Terra the THUMBS! Will no one think of the thumbs!

 

On a serious note, go slowly and it becomes easier the more that you do.

[zero88]

A Watch Captain with the relic shield can be really helpful for you if you are running full Primaris. Basically it's a storm shield but if you stand still it gives a 5+ Invulnerable save to units nearby. It's not nearly as optimized as Storm Shield regular Veterans but it's definitely a boost none the less

[Mr4Minutes]

A Watch Captain with the relic shield can be really helpful for you if you are running full Primaris. Basically it's a storm shield but if you stand still it gives a 5+ Invulnerable save to units nearby. It's not nearly as optimized as Storm Shield regular Veterans but it's definitely a boost none the less

This. I’ve actually been standing him next to 2 ven dreds with TL and ML. Try to get them in cover for optimal save bonuses.

 

Once my Fortis team of 5 hellblasters is done, I’ll be plopping them down with them too.

[Syward]

 

A Watch Captain with the relic shield can be really helpful for you if you are running full Primaris. Basically it's a storm shield but if you stand still it gives a 5+ Invulnerable save to units nearby. It's not nearly as optimized as Storm Shield regular Veterans but it's definitely a boost none the less

This. I’ve actually been standing him next to 2 ven dreds with TL and ML. Try to get them in cover for optimal save bonuses.

 

Once my Fortis team of 5 hellblasters is done, I’ll be plopping them down with them too.

 

I'll be doing this as well. I'm in the process of putting a TDA Watch Captain together with SS & SB for the sole purpose of using the relic shield & babysitting my 2x TLLC/ML Ven Dreads, and he'll eventually be joined by a 5man TDA squad w/SB & 2x CML.