Orpheus108 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Greetings All, Im a pure Death Guard player, but once i saw Haarken, i knew i had to use him. I do love raptors/warp talons and was disappointed they cant be used in a DG army and avree them as DG. I know you can add an attachment using Haarken along with raptors. So im looking at Vanguard attachment with them and Haarken. Though now im slowy building up Black Legion army, So i have 2 questions, 1/ what was all the fuss over him, i remember not long ago on warhammer-community the errata about him and people where using in a particular way, what was it? How was had used. 2/ what have peoples experience with him? How do you use him to his brxt advantage? Cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Greetings All, Im a pure Death Guard player, but once i saw Haarken, i knew i had to use him. I do love raptors/warp talons and was disappointed they cant be used in a DG army and avree them as DG. I know you can add an attachment using Haarken along with raptors. So im looking at Vanguard attachment with them and Haarken. Though now im slowy building up Black Legion army, So i have 2 questions, 1/ what was all the fuss over him, i remember not long ago on warhammer-community the errata about him and people where using in a particular way, what was it? How was had used. 2/ what have peoples experience with him? How do you use him to his brxt advantage? Cheers all 1) He used to give his Raptor buff aura only to Black Legion Raptors despite him being advertised on WarCom as buffing all Legions Raptors. The Errata changed it so he buffs all Legions Raptors. 2) From what I've heard the experiences are according to what was assumed by reading his rules. He's a slightly better double claw JP Lord that buffs melee Raptors instead of providing the re-roll aura but Raptors still suck in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus108 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Thank you @sfPanzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraken Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 IMO he is actually worse than a Jump Lord since his buffing aura is bloody useless and his lance is gimmicky at best. You are better off with a kitted out vanilla Lord, even if you want to use it alongside Raptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 IMO he is actually worse than a Jump Lord since his buffing aura is bloody useless and his lance is gimmicky at best. You are better off with a kitted out vanilla Lord, even if you want to use it alongside Raptors. I would use him as a jump Lord. The model is cool but I’ve seen him used to great effect as a Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I’d only use him as haarken if I was doing a leadership debuff shenanigans army. Otherwise using him as a standard lord seems best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Wich weapon are you using for this model as a jetpack chaos lord if not his standard gear ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tordeck Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Wich weapon are you using for this model as a jetpack chaos lord if not his standard gear ? I switched out his spear for dual claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I disagree with some of the above as it really depends on overall army build. If you do not intend on running raptors use him as a converted chaos lord with jump pack certainly. The thing is Haarken for his points cost is actually pretty good. 115? for a lord that gets duel claws statline (same number of attacks) and a str 5 shooting attack roughly equivocal to a plasma pistol? Not really shabby for what he brings including his situational buffs (-1 LD bubble and the +1 attack of if nails a character) By contrast a lord with the same gear (last I checked) was something like 112? 110? something like that. He really isn't "bad" by any stretch, but by taking him to get use you lock yourself into requiring some melee-oriented raptors. I am hoping in the future they fix this as it greatly limits his utility. (aura should be "all raptor attacks" not "melee raptor attacks") As for my personal experience... I have used him about 10 times in various games since release, he tends to pull his weight given his relatively low points cost and can bully normal HQs pretty well, but as I stated above you NEED to take a good number (15-25 raptors) to get a solid use out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Tbh his aura is fine if Raptors were actually a good unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraken Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Tbh his aura is fine if Raptors were actually a melee unit. Emphasis mine. Raptor are actually decent, but as a ranged unit. This buff doesn't make any sense and as I said in a previous post, you are better off buffing them with a standard jump lord for the Reroll 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Tbh his aura is fine if Raptors were actually a melee unit. Emphasis mine. Raptor are actually decent, but as a ranged unit. This buff doesn't make any sense and as I said in a previous post, you are better off buffing them with a standard jump lord for the Reroll 1. Urgh. I hate that this line keeps getting trotted out. Two specials+a combi do not make a shooting unit. Havocs get four good gun options, Chosen get what, five or six? These are shooting units. I understand that A1 models are underwhelming in general even with chainswords, but Haarken providing all-miss-rerolls up their lethality. Combine with DTTFE and VOTLW (VOTLW does work in the fight Phase too...) against Imperium opponents and you can generate respectable wound numbers against most infantry. Now I'm not arguing that chainswords are better than plasma guns. I am saying that with s big enough squad you can effectively employ both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 They really aren't decen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus108 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 I love the model for Haarken, and will use him as jump pack lord at times. But why the hate or strong dislike for Raptors, looking between the Astartes jump pack guys, the vanguard and normal assault guys. They get a cpuple of extra weapons, though raptors with an eviscerator would be awesome. I can see why the dislike towars them. Im more leaning towards Warp Talons as im building my Chaos Force and do wish that Haarken buffed both Raptors and Warp Talons. Well i could be missing somethimg here, i dont know. But there may e aomething different in playing them in a friendly match game as to tournament games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Either melee or shooty oriented raptors will work fine in most casual, friendly metas. The complaints are centered around the fact that Haarken buffs melee-oriented raptors and, in this edition, they are a rather poor choice for tournament or competitive pickup games. Particularly in comparison to blender units like Bezerkers in a transport. And when compared to the decidedly melee-oriented raptors of the 2002 Chaos Codex today's raptors look weak indeed. What with the ability to jump out of combat and then charge again those beasts were truly a unit to be feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Assault Marines and Bikes got rules that favor the other and not their primary role. Crisis suits and the Primaris crisis suits are the only units that feel "right" foe their given role. Asm/vv/raptors/warptalons should be able to assault, break off and assault again. Bikes should be able to shoot, assault break off and shoot again. I wonder why anyone would take lightning claws on terminators when vanguard veterans and warptalons (especially) exist. Warptalons either need an extra wound or bonuses to charging from deep strike or *gasp* a pseudo murder sword ability to allow them better charge and to hit rolls, maybe a skyleap like ability where they can jump back in the warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Vanguard Veterans are actually quite good now after CA. They are quite cheap for a unit with power weapons, jump packs and a 3++. Assault Marines are just as bad as Raptors though and nobody plays them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus108 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Thanks for all the info. I just play friendly game down at club, id prefer Warp Talons, but like the look of them and Raptors. For fun im looking at building a spearhead with full units for fun, add some much needed mobility to my DG army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'd say Raptors took yet another hit from the greater possessed. Not that they got hurt, but that warp talons got better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'd say Raptors took yet another hit from the greater possessed. Not that they got hurt, but that warp talons got better. Idk, str 5 is great for a model with light claws but the models are at 1 attack each. pathetic statline for 24 points a figure and 1 wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'd say Raptors took yet another hit from the greater possessed. Not that they got hurt, but that warp talons got better. Idk, str 5 is great for a model with light claws but the models are at 1 attack each. pathetic statline for 24 points a figure and 1 wound. Well 2 attacks actually due having a pair of Lightning claws. Still not that great though. The biggest problem with that combo will be to have the Greater Possessed in range as they don't have Jump Packs or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'd say Raptors took yet another hit from the greater possessed. Not that they got hurt, but that warp talons got better. Idk, str 5 is great for a model with light claws but the models are at 1 attack each. pathetic statline for 24 points a figure and 1 wound. Well 2 attacks actually due having a pair of Lightning claws. Still not that great though. The biggest problem with that combo will be to have the Greater Possessed in range as they don't have Jump Packs or similar. I mean to say 1 attack base, pre-gear. For their point cost they should be 2 attacks base + Claws. Then they would possibly see some decent play time on the table, but at the moment? horrendously over-costed for their damage output. Possessed have a similar issue, literally 1 tiny change would make them go from "never" to "sure!" which woudl be D3+1 as opposed to d3. Chosen have more melee damage output at 14 ppm with 2 attacks base. A possessed marine should shred a chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I'd say Raptors took yet another hit from the greater possessed. Not that they got hurt, but that warp talons got better. Idk, str 5 is great for a model with light claws but the models are at 1 attack each. pathetic statline for 24 points a figure and 1 wound. Well 2 attacks actually due having a pair of Lightning claws. Still not that great though. The biggest problem with that combo will be to have the Greater Possessed in range as they don't have Jump Packs or similar. I mean to say 1 attack base, pre-gear. For their point cost they should be 2 attacks base + Claws. Then they would possibly see some decent play time on the table, but at the moment? horrendously over-costed for their damage output. Possessed have a similar issue, literally 1 tiny change would make them go from "never" to "sure!" which woudl be D3+1 as opposed to d3. Chosen have more melee damage output at 14 ppm with 2 attacks base. A possessed marine should shred a chosen. Completely agree. No Marine should have only 1 attack in its profile and expensive melee Marines have even less reason to sit on just 1 base attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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