Horus Heresy Book 8: Malevolence

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Oh, I certainly agree on the sloppy rules writing part, no doubts there.

[Gorgoff]

Likely to be unpopular here....

 

This book looks terrible. As in, enough to put me off attending any events and thus killing off my interest in the game terrible.

 

Heresy appeals to me as a transparent, pseudo-historical game of sci-fi armies. Plenty scope for variation in a familiar, expansive, and fairly straightforward list once you figure out the RoW and unlocking mechanics offered by certain characters. Something faintly reminiscent of gritty old 3rd edition 40k.

 

And then we have The Daemons of the Ruinstorm. An entire army of counts as with invisible, esoteric rules and bizarre victory conditions. Something completely alien to the 'realistic' (massive quotation marks there) aesthetic of 30k.

 

Oh man, I really don't want to hate this development but I loathe it completely.

 

Also: Holy proof-reading Batman, there's three different ways of capitalising and/or hyphenating 'Equinox Power Blade Case' on a single page.

Chaos is strange.

Fits perfectly if you ask me. And the openess of those rules gives players the freedom to play with all sorts of models which has lots of potential.

And in the end the old rule applies:

Don't like it, don't play against it.

My focus is on Legion vs Legion as well. I don't like playing against Talons of the Emperor or against Mechanicum either, but different players like different stuff and I like that FW gives out a big variety of styles.

[Taliesin]

Hoping someone will post a table of contents. Would like to see what the fluff sections are, how long they are etc.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

Plenty scope for variation in a familiar, expansive, and fairly straightforward list once you figure out the RoW and unlocking mechanics offered by certain characters. 

 

I see the point, but I doubt things are going to change much due to this particular list. The mainstay of armies one sees are still Legion, with the only other army that's also highly prominent being Mechanicum (in its three-point-five variants).

One hardly sees any Imperialis Militia / Cults armies, and only few Auxilia or Questoris lists.

Daemons of the Ruinstorm won't be changing that any time soon.

 

 

And then we have The Daemons of the Ruinstorm. An entire army of counts as with invisible, esoteric rules and bizarre victory conditions.

 

Seriously, I don't get this point at all. Why would there by 'counts-as' armies when things need to be WYSIWYG and what're the esoteric rules you mentioned ? They're clearly more rounded than the initial Talons of the Emperor lists or even the Thousand Sons before any FAQs came along.

As for 'bizzare' victory conditions, I actually believe these might be a lot of fun in the right scenarios.

 

 

Also: Holy proof-reading Batman, there's three different ways of capitalising and/or hyphenating 'Equinox Power Blade Case' on a single page.

 

Totally agree. Sometimes it seems like there's a bunch of illiterates working at FW writing department. Seriously, these leather-bound tomes (which I love) cost premium money, but the premium effort is no longer being put into them, sadly.

[Marshal Rohr]

The daemon list is a work of Art.

[AlphaOmegon]

Read page 309 and then judge the book and people

[Ranwulf]

Read page 309 and then judge the book and people

All right, what does that mean?

[1ncarnadine]

I'm guessing he meant that we've only seen a few pages and we've already busted out the judging and cynicism and started passing it around

 

edit: not that I personally disagree. I'd love to see editing tightened up

[Noserenda]

Maybe get off your high horse and show us Page 309? Im assuming if its impressive it wont have any rules on it? :P 

[Marshal Rohr]

If anyone is showing anything it should be the lore sections :D

[N1SB]

A quick note of thanks for clarifying the Warmonger allying with Myrmidons, etc. issue:

 

Depends on the relationship your armies have.

If they are BFF then yes this will be a thing UNLESS they point out in his rules that he can only deep strike his detachment.

 

 

Outstanding and concise, totally know what you mean, am playing an Shattered Xth + Mechanicum alliance, and will check out the exact RAW and RAI.

 

Likely to be unpopular here....

 

This book looks terrible. As in, enough to put me off attending any events and thus killing off my interest in the game terrible.

 

Heresy appeals to me as a transparent, pseudo-historical game of sci-fi armies. Plenty scope for variation in a familiar, expansive, and fairly straightforward list once you figure out the RoW and unlocking mechanics offered by certain characters. Something faintly reminiscent of gritty old 3rd edition 40k.

 

And then we have The Daemons of the Ruinstorm. An entire army of counts as with invisible, esoteric rules and bizarre victory conditions. Something completely alien to the 'realistic' (massive quotation marks there) aesthetic of 30k. 

 

Oh man, I really don't want to hate this development but I loathe it completely.

 

Also: Holy proof-reading Batman, there's three different ways of capitalising and/or hyphenating 'Equinox Power Blade Case' on a single page.

 

Really appreciate this post because although I don't feel this way, I totally found your view logical since you explained it so well.

 

I also like FW for presenting HH in this war documentary format, like something pieced together by Remembrancers after the fact, like a history.  It's distinctly more solemn than 40k and even the Black Library's HH series, that's what made it special.  It is the Foil that FW chose, and it was deliberately, and imho definitely the right choice.  And I can see how Daemons can run counter to that (even though Chaos is admittedly is central to the entire Horus Heresy conflict, so I'm cool with it myself).

 

(Bad analogy - it'd be like watching a serious 2nd World War documentary that suddenly turned into a 2nd Weird War film with zombies raised by occult rituals.  It's an especially bad analogy because the Nazi Germany leadership actually had some weird esoteric mysticism ideologies.)

 

Now I know you've seen the book and I haven't yet...but if anything, I'm actually really curious how FW treated this very issue actually!  Can I really make Malal Daemons?  If so that'll be totally sweet and imma so do that.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can make Malal daemons; as much as they've been sloppy in the past, you can tell a lot of time went into making the daemon list fleshed out and interesting.

 

Time will tell with the balancing though

[Ficinus]

Can I really make Malal Daemons? If so that'll be totally sweet and imma so do that.

One of the Dominions (called something of hatred) gives all the models in the army hatred for daemons and psykers and scores extra victory points for killing daemons and psykers. The fluff talks about:

how the Warp contains unbound hatred that bends back into hatred of the Warp itself.

 

It was in the imgur link posted in this thread.

[Plaguecaster]

Really loving the new Esoterist consul as it sounds perfect for representing a Death Guard force after they have fallen to Nurgle especially when adding in some daemon allies

 

The Nullificators sound interesting what is the fluff for them are they a unit created by the loyalist to deal with traitor Psykers and daemons etc?

[Nova_Dew]

Really loving the new Esoterist consul as it sounds perfect for representing a Death Guard force after they have fallen to Nurgle especially when adding in some daemon allies

 

The Nullificators sound interesting what is the fluff for them are they a unit created by the loyalist to deal with traitor Psykers and daemons etc?

 

Nullifactors and the Primus Nulifactor consul were created by both sides as they went "What the fluff!!! how do we deal with this stuff?" and began crash course research programs into anti deamon stuff like wards and sanctified wargear.

 

Esoteriest's are ex librerious members who began specialising in anti-deamon/deamon psychic powers with the wargear to target deamons and psykers.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

Really loving the new Esoterist consul as it sounds perfect for representing a Death Guard force after they have fallen to Nurgle especially when adding in some daemon allies

 

The Nullificators sound interesting what is the fluff for them are they a unit created by the loyalist to deal with traitor Psykers and daemons etc?

Nullifactors and the Primus Nulifactor consul were created by both sides as they went "What the fluff!!! how do we deal with this stuff?" and began crash course research programs into anti deamon stuff like wards and sanctified wargear.

 

Esoteriest's are ex librerious members who began specialising in anti-deamon/deamon psychic powers with the wargear to target deamons and psykers.

All three units sounds very cool.

And I'd love to see a unit of Nullifiers bashing a path through some Levies. ;)

[rendingon1+]

All three units sounds very cool.

And I'd love to see a unit of Nullifiers bashing a path through some Levies.

 

Well, you certainly won't see them bashing a path through astartes haha ;)

[Charlo]

This book is utter witchypoo late-heresy nonsense and I LOVE IT.

[Rabidbunneh]

The Daemon list makes my Cybernetica list feel simple when it comes to the volume of special rules. The army looks weird but fun, a proper hobbyists army.

[Taliesin]

Table of contents, courtesy of Mortarion from the Heresy forum.

 

 

Of Betrayals and Triumphs.

 

The Hidden War - 9

 

Piercing the Veil - 23

 

At the Gates of Hell: The Battle of Signus - 35

 

The Betrayal at Chondax - 75

 

A Gate Unsealed - 109

 

 

 

Forces of the Legiones Astartes

 

The Blood Angels - 115

 

The White Scars - 137

 

 

 

The Signus Prime Campaign (rules missions etc) - 160 to - 176

 

 

 

The Chondax Campaign (rules missions etc) - 182 to - 198

 

 

 

Legiones Astartes Appendix (BA) - 202 to - 212

 

 

 

Legiones Astartes Appendix (WS) - 216 to - 226

 

 

 

Demons of the Ruinstorm - 231 to - 255

 

 

 

Talons of the Emperor - 259 to - 284

 

 

 

Space Marine Legion Army List Additions - 290 to - 294

 

 

 

Psyarkana - 300

 

 

I wonder what

A gate unsealed

refers to?

[quinnwolf]

@Taliesin Sounds like a bad night after a curry.

[Scammel]

Almost certainly the destruction/opening of the webway gate on Terra.

 

 

Really appreciate this post because although I don't feel this way, I totally found your view logical since you explained it so well.

 

I also like FW for presenting HH in this war documentary format, like something pieced together by Remembrancers after the fact, like a history.  It's distinctly more solemn than 40k and even the Black Library's HH series, that's what made it special.  It is the Foil that FW chose, and it was deliberately, and imho definitely the right choice.  And I can see how Daemons can run counter to that (even though Chaos is admittedly is central to the entire Horus Heresy conflict, so I'm cool with it myself).

 

(Bad analogy - it'd be like watching a serious 2nd World War documentary that suddenly turned into a 2nd Weird War film with zombies raised by occult rituals.  It's an especially bad analogy because the Nazi Germany leadership actually had some weird esoteric mysticism ideologies.)

Cheers. The visuals are certainly a large part of my concern, but if anything I'm more perturbed by how this will play out on the tabletop. As I said, the Legion list is a pretty transparent one - units are defined by armament, which is highly visible with easily-understood capabilities. It's why Mob Rule reflects the height of 40k game design to me, it can't be 'hidden' from the opponent and is very tactile ('Two orks plus two orks makes... some orks'). RoW are typically very simple too - you can tell what they do because the opponent has just dropped a dozen jetbikes on the table.

 

Unless I've badly misunderstood something, it seems that the DotR can be represented with almost any model you like, with myriad 'physical' options - half the GW range can be said to have 'talons'! It's not so bad with conventional Damons given that a Bloodletter has a defined model and profile, but it seems we're actively encouraged to rock up to the table with Bestigor, Trolls and Treekin, which don't even need to have consistent upgrades across the force.

[Marshal Rohr]

You understand that sounds amazing right? Total freedom to conceptualize and realize an entirely individualized army on the tabletop? I'm stuck between Nighthaunt and Wyches rights now. Maybe I'll do both. Or chaos warriors. There is no limit to how amazing this is. 

[Fire Golem]

You understand that sounds amazing right? Total freedom to conceptualize and realize an entirely individualized army on the tabletop? I'm stuck between Nighthaunt and Wyches rights now. Maybe I'll do both. Or chaos warriors. There is no limit to how amazing this is.

Ooh, Nighthaunt. Now that’s a great idea.

[Slips]

But thats the thing isn't it? Thats the whole point of the Ruinstorm Daemons: they aren't codified into the 4 "conventional" godly forms that we know of from 40k.

 

In this, they are more varied, amorphous and otherwise just straight up formless.

 

So, yeah, it will take some getting used to but, really, its a Daemon Modellers dream of an Army because it gives them creative licence to create whatever their mind can come up with.