Horus Heresy Book 8: Malevolence

[caladancid]

I would love those Lions of Thapsis shoulder pad designs for a successor chapter.

[lordhellblade]

Mr Parker can we can get more pics on the Pioneer company lore?

[Charlo]

Be sure to put pics into spoiler tags for those of us who don't want the visuals ruined before getting the books please :)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Just realised that a Mortificator's Dreadnoughts in an Iron Hands Detachment can potentially have three separate methods of mitigating lost Hull Points - the Consul's own ability (5+ roll), IWND from Ferrus (5+) and Blessed Autosimulacra (6+), which is free with Head of the Gorgon 

[Luna707]

Just realised that a Mortificator's Dreadnoughts in an Iron Hands Detachment can potentially have three separate methods of mitigating lost Hull Points - the Consul's own ability (5+ roll), IWND from Ferrus (5+) and Blessed Autosimulacra (6+), which is free with Head of the Gorgon

:D

[Sandlemad]

Much obliged Parker! Those Vth legion brotherhood icons are choice. That Blue Hawk is lovely with the rest of the WS scheme. Same for the BA orders, nice to note that the icon for the Burning Eyes field police is clearly an outgrowth of the sanghauta twin flame-blade symbol used by the legions more widely, that we saw on the pre-Russ VIth discipline master in Inferno.

 

Interesting to see the way they're taking the Blood Angels background. The pre-primarch warlordism is cool and the broad imposition of order that Sanguinius imposed isn't a million miles from what Russ did to the VIth legion, itself a parallel to the descent of the World Eaters.

 

That focus on discipline though, that's curious. I wouldn't have said that it was a prominent feature of previous depictions of the Blood Angels in 30k or 40k. It certainly makes sense considering the Red Thirst and syncs nicely with the emphasis on artistic expression; take a violent legionary, subject him to extreme control, strip away responsibilities beyond the basest blade and bolter-work, then encourage artistic pursuits as a way of diverting his energies. And then it's dressed up in esoteric terminology, in a similar manner of 'artificial' culture-formation as the VIth legion.

 

But it does seem... not at odds but a bit surprising considering the previous portrayal of the IXth as a particularly humane and genteel legion. Thinking here, for example, of how generously Zephon was treated despite his problems. It's fascinating and doesn't directly contradict older background - it's clearly an underlying strand in the legion - but this stuff makes Sanguinius and the legion come off as fairly authoritarian.

[Arkangilos]

Which I like. It is very angelic. They obey the word without question.

 

Was there anything about helmet colors?

[Charlo]

So I just had the chance to properly go over the Daemon list. VERRRRY COOL. So incredibly sandbox and creative.

 

I can absolutely see why Psykarna are necessary, as are the new units/ cosuls.

 

I'd absolutely love to play someone double-dipping with their AoS army for this.

[Marshal Rohr]

A Sigmarine on the Big Dragon would be a hell of an Arch-Daemon 

[Tyrannicide]

Parker, if you’re able to check and confirm, is there any details on how the Dawnbreakers are organized? Are they a separate entity outside of the 300 Companies or are they like a Host veteran equivalent that is spread across the legion?

 

Any insight would be super helpful!

[Elzender]

A Sigmarine on the Big Dragon would be a hell of an Arch-Daemon

I'll just drop it here: Morathi and Drycha Hamadreth...

[Qkhitai]

Can anyone shed any light on the Sisters list? Is it just excised from the Talons list, or are there any new options or rules? Being able to take some generic Imperial vehicles would be nice.

[N1SB]

Hi Brothers, great stuff.

 

My takeaway from both reading the Daemon rules and your discussion is: remember to take into account my fellow players' perception of the game, is all.

 

Imperial Cults & Militias and Mechanicum introduce all sorts of crazy conversions already, but most players tend to manage that, not just for themselves, but also for their opponents.  No one I've seen intentionally wants to game-the-system by choosing weird proxies; they want to win by strategy, not by visual gimmickry, in fact that taints their victory.

 

In comparison, Daemons are relatively straight-forward.  I'll probably just re-use my Nurgle Daemons with my Gellerpox Infected to keep things simple.  That said, I really, really like how Forgeworld left it open-ended to allow basically the new AoS minis, simply by giving the Chaos powers different names.  The new AoS stuff is spectacular.

 

+++++

 

Just 1 thing I would ask for confirmation please - can Warmongers give Deep Strike to units outside their Detachment (like an Iron Hands Warmonger sneaking in a unit of Myrmidons)?  Thanks in advance.

[Atia]

 

A Sigmarine on the Big Dragon would be a hell of an Arch-Daemon

I'll just drop it here: Morathi and Drycha Hamadreth...

 

 

Oh yeah ..... I'll defo try to get my Daughters of Khaine working .... <3

[Elzender]

Does anybody know if the new units and consuls are available to blackshields? It seems fitting to have some crazy renegades running around with makeshift wards and/or dabbling in the warp to summon daemons for their own benefit.

 

About the psyker consul (esoterist?) that can take either sanctic or malefic daemonology, is it defined by his allegiance (loyalist/traitor)? The temptation to make a "loyalist" Imperial Heralds detachment that tries to turn chaos against the traitors would be pretty tempting :D.

[Beren]

My thoughts exactly. Malal-ish chaos being around makes it especially tempting.

[m_r_parker]

Mr Parker can we can get more pics on the Pioneer company lore?

Here is some of the more easily photographed, there is more in the book.

No information about Blood Angel or White Scar helmet colours or insignia. No specific information from what I can see about how Dawnbreakers are distributed across the Legion. There are no updates to Sisters of Silence in the Talons section - it's purely Custodes.

[Arkangilos]

That’s a shame :( I was hoping we would get to see yellow helms or at least where the colors came from.

[1ncarnadine]

That Legionary's blurb makes Dorn a (more?) massive hypocrite when you consider how he talked down to Alpharius on the planet of the World Prince. I wonder if that section was written by Anuj, too? He's a huge IF fan  

And I really, really want Stalker squads with Legion anti-material rifles now 

[Elzender]

That Legionary's blurb makes Dorn a (more?) massive hypocrite when you consider how he talked down to Alpharius on the planet of the World Prince. I wonder if that section was written by Anuj, too? He's a huge IF fan

 

And I really, really want Stalker squads with Legion anti-material rifles now

I think the modus operandi described here, while apparently similar, is mostly focussed on military objectives (they give an example of the depicted legionary taking part in a sabotaging operation against aircraft), in order to weaken the opposition before the Fists started their traditional shock assault deployment. If I recall correctly (I must admit most of my info comes from forums and third hand information, so I might be completely wrong), the argument that Dorn and Guilliman had with Alpharius was mainly because Alpharius had put the whole world into chaos and disarray, and thus its integration to the Imperial fold would be much more difficult. Regarding human worlds, legions mostly acted through shock warfare and decapitation strikes to "minimize" (as much as you can really use that word when dealing with astartes, and especially with certain legions) collateral damages and alteration of the civil population, so that the world could be easily integrated into the Imperial strategy.

[caladancid]

Mr Parker can we can get more pics on the Pioneer company lore?

Here is some of the more easily photographed, there is more in the book.

No information about Blood Angel or White Scar helmet colours or insignia. No specific information from what I can see about how Dawnbreakers are distributed across the Legion. There are no updates to Sisters of Silence in the Talons section - it's purely Custodes.

Thanks again for showing pics. I’ve been waiting for the Scars for so long but this last bit seems like forever!

On a less exciting note, did anyone else pick up they have a Thapsus and Thapsis on the same page? I just feel like nobody at FW is taking editing as seriously as they should. I’m about to drop 100 dollars or more on a book- editing should be darn close to perfect.

[1ncarnadine]

Could be an HR problem. GW may not be willing to spend on the employee hours for editing, maximizing profit.

 

 

I think the modus operandi described here, while apparently similar, is mostly focussed on military objectives (they give an example of the depicted legionary taking part in a sabotaging operation against aircraft), in order to weaken the opposition before the Fists started their traditional shock assault deployment. If I recall correctly (I must admit most of my info comes from forums and third hand information, so I might be completely wrong), the argument that Dorn and Guilliman had with Alpharius was mainly because Alpharius had put the whole world into chaos and disarray, and thus its integration to the Imperial fold would be much more difficult. Regarding human worlds, legions mostly acted through shock warfare and decapitation strikes to "minimize" (as much as you can really use that word when dealing with astartes, and especially with certain legions) collateral damages and alteration of the civil population, so that the world could be easily integrated into the Imperial strategy.

 

To-may-to, to-mah-to  I might have a bias... Guilliman was not present at the compliance I'm referencing, though. You might be mixing it with the Tesstra Compliance? You're right on the problem, though. I'll let the source do the talking:
 

 

“The end matters,’ said Alpharius at last. ‘Victory matters. Everything else is just delusion. With victory we can build dreams, but without victory they remain just dreams.’

‘And how would you salvage a dream from your victory? Here and now, on this world. We cannot trust the World-Prince to rule for us, and you have removed those who could have taken his place. Even a defeated people prefer rule on their own. You have won this battle, but you have done it by seeding the ground with resentment and bitterness.’

‘Some would call what I did gentle compared to the ways of our other brothers. Curze, Mortarion, Angron, even the Khan and feted Horus – would you call what they would have done preferable?’

‘They–’ began Dorn.

‘You are certain that you are right,’ said Alpharius, ‘but if you disdain me, then why not my maker? Why not our father? He created us all. Or do you think my nature accident, or Him ignorant of what I do for Him? What any of us do for Him?”

 

Excerpt From: John French. “Praetorian of Dorn.” iBooks.

Realistically, there isn't really enough info in the pioneer Legionary's blurb about what kind of murders they carried out to make a sound judgment  Though, it is interesting that Alpharius mentions the Khan, above.

[lordhellblade]

The Pioneer Company Lore is really really  cool.  Definty painting up the Mark III marines I got for Christmas as a Pioneer Company.

 

Also  the Pre Sanguinius Blood Angel Lore is also really really cool.   Ishidur Ossuros is defintly a BAMF.  He needs rules.     I'm getting kind of the sick of the trend of Legion Masters dying soon after they meet their Primarch though.

[Soldier of Dorn]

800 known Pioneer Companies.

800.

Each with their own distinct identity and colors. Imagine the possibilities.

The reference of the Pioneer Company color plate as a "White Scars Veteran Legionary" as opposed to the pre-Sanguinius color plate as a "IX Legion Veteran Legionary" also suggests to me that the colors endured after the return of the Khan, to some extent.

This is insane.

[m0nolith]

The reality is that before the Angel arrived, the IX Legion was bloodier and more brutal than even the World Eaters, at that time known as the War Hounds.

Edit: To be fair, this isn't my idea, its from The Age of Darkness Podcast.