Horus Heresy Book 8: Malevolence

[1ncarnadine]

800 known Pioneer Companies.

 

800.

 

Each with their own distinct identity and colors. Imagine the possibilities.

 

The reference of the Pioneer Company color plate as a "White Scars Veteran Legionary" as opposed to the pre-Sanguinius color plate as a "IX Legion Veteran Legionary" also suggests to me that the colors endured after the return of the Khan, to some extent.

 

It's weird that they mention the companies numbering "as few as 500," though. If that's the lower limit there would be 400,000 Vth Legion warriors out and about... 

 

There's potential for putting together companies that went missing before the Khan was found that turn up again during the Heresy.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Can we also point out that the Pioneer Companies recruited from other Legions' tithed worlds and that Leman Russ is mentioned as specifically complaining? Like... I may have the wrong of it, but that does imply what I think it implies, right?

[Marshal Rohr]

The dates on the White Scars fluff is off a little bit. The Emperor didn’t even arrive on Mars until after 800.M30. There couldn’t have been expeditionary fleets out and about before the Great Crusade even took Luna. I think the dates might be off by a hundred years.

[Sandlemad]

Can we also point out that the Pioneer Companies recruited from other Legions' tithed worlds and that Leman Russ is mentioned as specifically complaining? Like... I may have the wrong of it, but that does imply what I think it implies, right?

 

As in, the pioneer companies are suggested to have poached recruits from Fenris at some point? That's how I read it.

 

The post-Russ VIth legion were definitely known for doing their best to radically limit recruitment to Fenris; "The Legion maintained no domains save Fenris, and needed none", sez Inferno. Massacre suggests that the Iron Hands had sworn domains besides Medusa so that could have been the Vth picking up recruits from random worlds under Ferrus's protection but for the wolves... yeah, wow.

 

Maybe it happened between Russ's discovery and his return to Fenris with the legion after the Wheel of Fire campaign? While it was clearly earmarked for the VIth legion and the Fang was being built, but not yet properly protected.

[pandion40]

The reality is that before the Angel arrived, the IX Legion was bloodier and more brutal than even the World Eaters, at that time known as the War Hounds.

Edit: To be fair, this isn't my idea, its from The Age of Darkness Podcast.

Really surprised they went in this direction, I expected the 9th to have issues but the spoilers I’ve seen indicates the pre Sanguinius Blood Angels my have equaled the post nails world eaters in their savagery. It looks like one of the ways Sanguinius brought sanity to the 9th was by promoting art in their down time. I always believed that the Blood Angels love of art was redirected by the 40k Blood Angels to help maintain their sanity in the face of the flaws but it looks like it always surved a similar purpose. Gives new insight into the overly decorative nature of the angels, it’s not vanity it’s a desperation to control their darker side and stay sane. Cawl did say the problems with the 9th gene seed were put there by the emperor but I expected a more hidden flaw to be honest

[caladancid]

No preorder today...the wait continues.

[helterskelter]

Daggit, I've got to change my sundered stone fluff. Oh well, looking forward to the white scars bits

[Taliesin]

Maybe the pre-order hasn't gone live yet? Surely they should have it up by now, after having waited as long as they possibly could?

I don't see any new products yet and normally there is always something..

[Purge the Daemon]

Yeah I dont see anything yet and they released some rats last week just to give us something... I assume it or sanguinius and maybe paladins and raldoron are coming. Something of that sort has to be soon.

[ChainMachete]

I've seen scans of the Arch Daemon, Daemon Lord, Lesser Daemons and Possessed.

 

Anyone know the stats, points and number of emanations for the other daemon units?

 

Starting to create a Quartermaster template for this army so I can put together some lists.

[StruManChu]

About pre-ordering, I'd suspect that the powers that be within GW have nixed the idea of Malevolence going up today because the CSM renaissance is starting tomorrow, and they don't want their thunder stolen (or people's cash going to FW rather than them). 

 

On topic, I'm liking what we've seen so far, aside from the obvious editorial issues that hang over every FW release. The only thing I'm not sure about is the 400,000 White Scar Legionnaires running around the galaxy, but I guess you could hand wave this by saying that once a Pioneer Company goes, that's it, it's gone and its company number gets recorded and never reused. That lets you write off a bunch as 'Lost in the Warp', another bunch to just being wiped out by opposing forces, etc. etc., so that big 400k is cumulative across the Great Crusade rather than concurrent companies operating at the same time.

 

If you imagine this taking place from as soon as the Emperor's taken Terra until the recovery of the Khan, then it's much easier to justify that figure of 800 Companies at a minimum of 500 marines each against what we know of the sizes of the Legions. 

[Fire Golem]

Maybe the pre-order hasn't gone live yet? Surely they should have it up by now, after having waited as long as they possibly could?

I don't see any new products yet and normally there is always something..

The Forge World newsletter has already gone out though, with no new preorders, so looks like we’re getting nothing this week.

[Taliesin]

Yeah, no updates to the site, no pre-orders.

What a disappointment, yet again.

[Jareddm]

Snip

Could've made it simpler on themselves by setting the lower bound to 100.

[Marshal Rohr]

I don't think there were ever 400,000 at one point, because the point the mention having 80,000 is before Horus is even found. 

[Qkhitai]

 

There are no updates to Sisters of Silence in the Talons section - it's purely Custodes.

 

Oh I see, that's a shame. Not to worry though, thanks for checking

[1ncarnadine]

Could've made it simpler on themselves by setting the lower bound to 100.

 

I don't think there were ever 400,000 at one point, because the point the mention having 80,000 is before Horus is even found. 

Exactly these comments^ 

 

I just thought it was strange that they set the lower bound so high relative to the number of fleets, when the next sentence gives 80,000 as the sum total at that point. StruManChu made some good points, too, though.

 

But 80,000 is still really high for that point! How big are the White Scars??

 

edit: OK so the Khan was actually the 15th discovered. But Jaghatai Khan, the Primarchs book, gives us M30.879 as the date of the Khan on Terra just after discovery. The Vth were still pretty swole pre-Primarch, even if they were splintered.

[Sandlemad]

There was a bit in Extermination about the geneseed of the IVth and Vth having low rejection rates, meaning these were the legions that grew most rapidly and were first put into service on Terra alongside the Ist legion. I guess once the crusade took to the stars the size of the IVth meant they could be taken as a workhorse legion and split among the expeditionary fleets, while the size of the Vth meant that they could be divided into tons of these pioneer companies.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Hi all,

 

Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?

 

Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Cadmus

[Purge the Daemon]

Hi all,

 

Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?

 

Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Cadmus

Omega and punisher squads of 1-2 and arcus no changes.

 

There may in a future book be a generic destroyer row but how soon who knows.

[Sete]

Oh that white scar info is the best

[Nova_Dew]

Much obliged Parker! Those Vth legion brotherhood icons are choice. That Blue Hawk is lovely with the rest of the WS scheme. Same for the BA orders, nice to note that the icon for the Burning Eyes field police is clearly an outgrowth of the sanghauta twin flame-blade symbol used by the legions more widely, that we saw on the pre-Russ VIth discipline master in Inferno.

 

Interesting to see the way they're taking the Blood Angels background. The pre-primarch warlordism is cool and the broad imposition of order that Sanguinius imposed isn't a million miles from what Russ did to the VIth legion, itself a parallel to the descent of the World Eaters.

 

That focus on discipline though, that's curious. I wouldn't have said that it was a prominent feature of previous depictions of the Blood Angels in 30k or 40k. It certainly makes sense considering the Red Thirst and syncs nicely with the emphasis on artistic expression; take a violent legionary, subject him to extreme control, strip away responsibilities beyond the basest blade and bolter-work, then encourage artistic pursuits as a way of diverting his energies. And then it's dressed up in esoteric terminology, in a similar manner of 'artificial' culture-formation as the VIth legion.

 

But it does seem... not at odds but a bit surprising considering the previous portrayal of the IXth as a particularly humane and genteel legion. Thinking here, for example, of how generously Zephon was treated despite his problems. It's fascinating and doesn't directly contradict older background - it's clearly an underlying strand in the legion - but this stuff makes Sanguinius and the legion come off as fairly authoritarian.

Personally i find it meh, we have become the not so special Space Wolves legion (the violent legion no one wants to be around, but we weren't one of the 3 special legions trained apart), including having our Primarch come in to save us from our selves (just like the Wolves, Sang uses a non combative means of focusing the marines to suppress their overly violent instincts) also the huge error that the BA have the unique ability to absorb memories, the ability that comes with the Omophagea that all legions had at that point.

 

The following is purely the rambling thoughts of a me:

 

I'm not sure the legion was just authoritarian, i think one of the psychic powers Sang had was the ability to influence thoughts (and could be an explanation for why sang chose not to train those powers, He believed in Unification whole-heartedly, is it unification if those subjugated are made to think it's a good thing and not choose to think it is? they had a choice to join or fight but it was still a choice they were free to make), we know all the primarchs had an ability from the big e, i don't think daddy gave sang wings just like him, but he could influence people to his point of view.

 

Sang gets knocked out by not-khorne khorne deamon and the entire legion goes back to their old pre-Sang incarnation in an instant, that psychic connection between sang and his legion is two way and as said could be more than just a connection.  

[Elzender]

Nova_Dew, that last paragraph has made me think: it may be feasible that the Emperor intended precisely this with the IX legion, to have a bunch of savage murderers that could be toned down simply by the presence of their primarch through psychic means. Thus, if trained properly, Sanguinius could have just modulated his "calming" aura, so to speak, according to the enemy they were facing (ie: rebellious human colony that might be interesting to get into the fold, Sanguinius tones down the bloodlust; xeno race looking for trouble? Turn up the carnage dial to eleven).

That way, the Emperor had a polivalent legion so that it didn't need support from other legions. The Space Wolves case seems to be more of a result of Russ' upbringing in Fenris making him a ferocious yet noble leader, that was given reign over a bunch of frothing berserkers, and said "nope, not going that way".

 

It is true that this supposition would imply that the Blood Angels would mostly deploy always at full legion force, or at least always rely on Sanguinius' presence, but maybe his aura could also be reflected by legion librarians, or just assume that IX legion forces without Sanguinius would be unrestrained and extremely violent. Then again, the structure of the Great Crusade was probably greatly influenced by the scattering of the Primarchs. If the Emperor had had the 18/20/21 :D primarchs by his side from the start, we might have had a very different way to approach the galactic conquest, plus their personalities would be quite different.

[Nova_Dew]

 

-snip-

 

It is true that this supposition would imply that the Blood Angels would mostly deploy always at full legion force, or at least always rely on Sanguinius' presence, but maybe his aura could also be reflected by legion librarians, or just assume that IX legion forces without Sanguinius would be unrestrained and extremely violent. Then again, the structure of the Great Crusade was probably greatly influenced by the scattering of the Primarchs. If the Emperor had had the 18/20/21 primarchs by his side from the start, we might have had a very different way to approach the galactic conquest, plus their personalities would be quite different.

 

But we know from what happened on Murder (which ever book that was in) that Sang knows when any BA dies anywhere, the connection isn't just by proximity (well at least once he's united with his legion anyway) maybe that comes from using Sang's blood in the change, maybe it wasn't just to make it easier/safer but as a form of soul bonding like the the big e does with astropaths? instead of removing a mortal sense, it removes some of the legionaries free will, that on top of the hypnoindoctrination, would also explain the legion being seen as dangerously fanatical when it comes to the ideals of Unification or anything else the legion stands for, Sang believes in it so much that the BA legionnaires also do because sang gives them no choice.

[Plaguecaster]

I don’t suppose anyone has a pic of who can and can’t ally with the new Daemons, a bit obvious for some legions but I was wondering if ones like Black Shields can as the new Daemons plus consuls like the Esoterist have really tempted to put my 40k army on hold and try get back into 30k. I also hope they release a Dark Compliance style list but instead able to mix traitor Legionnaires and Daemons together as that would be awesome especially for Word Bearers and Black Shields