Horus Heresy Book 8: Malevolence

[Theredknight]

So the dawnbteaker cohort, undercosted for what they are?! I mean I play BAs and looking at them compared to say palatine blades they are amazingly undercosted! They come stock with Phoenix spears (basically) and can upgrade to cool swords. Plus a grenade discharger, plus arty armour plus jump packs, plus set the sky aflame. And also as BA they will have +1 I if you use DOR and then the +1 to wound.. wow...

[Brofist]

Hi all,

 

Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?

 

Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Cadmus

Punisher got a buff - it can rend every turn now. Omega costs less I think. Besides that and the squadron stuff, no changes

[Jensvdb]

 

Hi all,Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?ThanksCadmus

Punisher got a buff - it can rend every turn now. Omega costs less I think. Besides that and the squadron stuff, no changes

Do you have any Information on the unknown daemon Units like the greater daemon, especially on the Points, stats Or no. Of emanations?

[Varyn]

 

Hi all,

 

Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?

 

Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Cadmus

Punisher got a buff - it can rend every turn now. Omega costs less I think. Besides that and the squadron stuff, no changes

 

 

This is a very positive buff

[noigrim]

Can daemons ally with cults?

[Chaeron]

Good news everyone - Malevolence is up for pre-order this Friday, with Sanguinius and other goodies!

[m0nolith]

Everything looks incredible!

I can’t wait to have it in my hands in a week or two!

[Arkangilos]

How are the campaign rules looking?

[insidion]

 

Hi all,

 

Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?

 

Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?

 

Thanks

 

Cadmus

Punisher got a buff - it can rend every turn now. Omega costs less I think. Besides that and the squadron stuff, no changes

 

I hope the price drop in points is significant, as it stands, the omega is not nearly worth it's points. My omega has actually done more damag with the lascannon sponsons than the plasma array.

 

I'm also interested in the white scars rules. I've seen the blood angels and daemons of the ruinstorm rules, but little from the white scars. 

[Brofist]

The 'new' omega is a bit more than 200pts (without sponsons). If they wanted it to be popular they should have made it cost less or given the armor busting version an extra shot, or some kind of blast template alt fire. 6 shots on the main gun is decent, but not really at the price point.

[insidion]

The 'new' omega is a bit more than 200pts (without sponsons). If they wanted it to be popular they should have made it cost less or given the armor busting version an extra shot, or some kind of blast template alt fire. 6 shots on the main gun is decent, but not really at the price point.

that's disappointing. I had hoped for a decent update for it. 

[Brofist]

Same FW still have a hard time figuring out how to balance their game.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi all,Quick question to whoever has a copy of book 8 to hand. Are there any changes to the generic LA list? I’ve heard certain sicaran variants can now be taken squadrons, but is there any change to the rules for the punisher/omega/Arcus?Also, I presume there are no new RoW, but the wording in the BA angels tears entry suggests there may be a destroyer RoW in the future?ThanksCadmus

Punisher got a buff - it can rend every turn now. Omega costs less I think. Besides that and the squadron stuff, no changes

 

Do you have any Information on the unknown daemon Units like the greater daemon, especially on the Points, stats Or no. Of emanations?

 

 

Greater Daemons are MCs without any other wargear and cost about as much as a Sicaran with 3 emanations. Daemons are 4+ across the board. The Greater Daemon is WS5, BS4, S7, T6, I4, with 4A at LD10. The emanations aren't super strong in my opinion and are pretty balanced- there aren't a lot of shooting options. The better ones from memory: rending, -1 enemy toughness (doesn't lower ID threshold), and power armor saves.

[Purge the Daemon]

I honestly think the daemons are going to struggle a lot they dont have shooting of any note they need to deepstike in and assault after a turn. Most units in their list are the exact same base with a mobility change and +/- to stats no wargear differences or special rules or many special rules.

 

If you look at the only good anti armour weapon the gun enimation would be good on brutes if it wasn't 1 shot a unit they are already far more than terminators why cant theh get a worse than meltagun option on each model instead of 1/3 paying more...

 

Khabanda is pretty good but even the archdaemon who needs 4k games if its upgraded is really overpriced for what it does.

 

They also dont have daemonoloy so the many extra dice for warp charge spam isnt that good.

 

Base daemons are really expensive to 3 eminations and you are at 27 points a model.

[Marshal Rohr]

I honestly think the daemons are going to struggle a lot they dont have shooting of any note they need to deepstike in and assault after a turn. Most units in their list are the exact same base with a mobility change and +/- to stats no wargear differences or special rules or many special rules.

 

If you look at the only good anti armour weapon the gun enimation would be good on brutes if it wasn't 1 shot a unit they are already far more than terminators why cant theh get a worse than meltagun option on each model instead of 1/3 paying more...

 

Khabanda is pretty good but even the archdaemon who needs 4k games if its upgraded is really overpriced for what it does.

 

They also dont have daemonoloy so the many extra dice for warp charge spam isnt that good.

 

Base daemons are really expensive to 3 eminations and you are at 27 points a model.

I think the list very specifically wants you to not blow tons of point upgrade basic squad and instead fielding them at max size

[Nova_Dew]

 

I honestly think the daemons are going to struggle a lot they dont have shooting of any note they need to deepstike in and assault after a turn. Most units in their list are the exact same base with a mobility change and +/- to stats no wargear differences or special rules or many special rules.

 

If you look at the only good anti armour weapon the gun enimation would be good on brutes if it wasn't 1 shot a unit they are already far more than terminators why cant theh get a worse than meltagun option on each model instead of 1/3 paying more...

 

Khabanda is pretty good but even the archdaemon who needs 4k games if its upgraded is really overpriced for what it does.

 

They also dont have daemonoloy so the many extra dice for warp charge spam isnt that good.

 

Base daemons are really expensive to 3 eminations and you are at 27 points a model.

I think the list very specifically wants you to not blow tons of point upgrade basic squad and instead fielding them at max size

 

 

Yeah i think the DotR list is meant as a hoard army, one or two at the most upgrades per unit and each unit as large as you can get. I think pretty much like a militia army but with specifically upgraded unit's instead of one or two provenance's for the whole army.

[Charlo]

Remember that for turn 1/2 all daemons have +1T which is pretty nuts for resisting incoming firepower.

[N1SB]

Great conversation all 'round.

 

It's a reminder that there are some units that are great to throw at an opponent but not at holding objectives, the ones you're expending because that's the role they play in a greater army.  It doesn't even feel like a sacrifice, because we don't mourn things like bullets.  The initial Turn 1 & 2 buff and the later Turns debuff encourage us to aggressively push with these Daemons and anything afterwards is a bonus.

 

This does suggest maybe they really are a great Allied force, btw.  Sorry if I missed this, but did anyone catch how they fit on the Allies matrix (like I'm just assuming Word Bearers are Battle Brothers, but that's an assumption).

[SkimaskMohawk]

I can see some great word bearer summoning. You can get some really flexible options for what you need.

[Brofist]

From what I've read I would say milita does scary hordes way better than daemons.

[stretch_135]

I can see some great word bearer summoning. You can get some really flexible options for what you need.

From Penddraigs summary:

 

Armies that can summon daemons (Word Bearers I`m looking at you!) still use the Ruinstorm list.  However, summoned daemons do not use any rules from the Dominion or Enemation sections, and they are not affected the profile changes due to the game turn.  Summoned daemons represent a more stable form of daemon created for a purpose and controlled by the will of a mortal, not one of the Pantheon.

[sarabando]

can any one expand on what the Esoterist is, im not asking for rules just what they are compared to a normal libby, trying to plan how i will model one.

[N1SB]

can any one expand on what the Esoterist is, im not asking for rules just what they are compared to a normal libby, trying to plan how i will model one.

 

Great question, I'd like to know, too.  In fact, for those that have the books, please let us know how it compares to the other books.

 

I really enjoyed the rules in Book V because of the Provenances, letting people really customise their armies and expand on the setting.  However, I really liked Book VI for the Black Shield rules, but also, it really expanded the lore with all sorts of things not focused on by the novels, like lost Legionnaires separated from their Primarchs.

 

Book VIII's Daemons reminds me of the fun of Book V's Provenances, and has exciting new ideas about proto-Grey Knight Nullificators.  The Esoterist sounds interesting, and I'm not sure what it's the prototype of, like the new Master of Possession?

 

I'm just curious if Book VIII is like the best of both these books, a fun new army list and ways to expand the lore.

[Knockagh]

At last! Looking forward to this, it’s been a long time since I’ve felt that big black book on my knees in the evenings.

[Brofist]

I haven't read the fluff yet, so I can't really comment on that. In terms of theme the book takes the heresy into a completely different direction: daemons are now a real thing and even though nobody really understands what they are they are trying to deal with them (or use them!).

 

Overall I'm finding little power creep in the book, which is a big swing compared to Inferno. On the other hand, some of that bligh charm is gone. They still don't seem to fully grasp their own game with a few head scratchers. A good example are some relics, which cost you points, but often have little drawbacks you're paying points for. Not great design since most of the relics aren't great anyway. The Armistos only really makes sense for Dark Angels, but is totally wasted for most everybody else. The Esoterist is basically a budget librarian with less wargear and access to malefic or santic daemonology.

[StruManChu]

can any one expand on what the Esoterist is, im not asking for rules just what they are compared to a normal libby, trying to plan how i will model one.

 

I'll say this full in the knowledge that I don't have the book, so this may end up being proven totally wrong.

 

To me, an Esoterist is definitely not a Librarian. If you wanted a Libbie and what they represent in terms of the Librarius was as an established, recognised order within the Legions, you get a Librarian Consul instead. Librarians = Formal Instruction, Esoterists do not.

 

An Esoterist is not part of the established order. In the traitor legions, he's potentially a guy like Typhon or Sevatar, but more tied into or attuned to the whispers of the Dark Gods in terms of where his abilities are drawn from, rather than being simply pre-cognitive or something like that. Obviously they have Psyker potential, but it's limited and focussed, thus you can only get two Mastery Levels with him, and they're fixed to either Sanctic or Malefic Daemonology. These are the guys properly dabbling in the warp in their downtime.

Serghar Targost, the Lodge Master of the Sons of Horus, would be a good example of an Esoterist in a traitor legion, based on what he's doing in Vengeful Spirit.

 

For the Loyalists, it's a little harder to pin down. The route I'm going to take is something along the lines of this - This is the Age of Darkness, and there are costs to pay, and distasteful weapons that need to be wielded in order for righteousness to triumph. I can see certain Primarchs, the Lion and Guilliman especially, but maybe Corax as well, conducting testing and tapping into the power in the warp in order to combat that which comes from it. Given the dangers, this would be done separately to the formal activities of the Librarius, using Librarians as they've already received training in the Psychic Arts, though again, they're still very much learning Daemonology, thus the lower Mastery levels.

 

Another option for the Loyalist Legions would potentially be someone who had taken a secret belief in the Lectitio Divinatus like Garro did, though this would be more down the 'Acts of Faith' idea than the proper psychic powers that Sanctic Daemonology represents.