T'au: 8'ths big SURVEY: What do we need changed

[Guest Triszin]

starting this as I started a similar one in the wolves to discuss helfrost.

 

AS T'au players I think we should get together and decide on a similar list of requested changes, additives to the tau.

 

Lets not make stuff overpowered, lets brainstorm balanced fun and interesting ideas!

 

then have a summary list made for when the big survey comes!

 

 

For the Greater Good! and stuffs!

 

----------------

 

"Review how markerlights work and how tau can deal with multiple penalties to hit"

 

"Review Kroot and Kroot shaper effectiveness and roll"

 

"Review Support systems that no one ever takes"

 

" Please consider a T'AU Auxillaries Codex!"

[Panzer]

If we talk about what NEEDS to get changed then I'd say:

Markerlights being affected by hit penalties,

the Shaper being useless compared to an Ethereal,

Kroot being a strictly worse Troop choice than Firewarriors as they can do less while also having a higher minimum cost per squad so they don't even serve well to fill detachments,

Reviewing various support systems like for example the Multi-tracker,

and Skyrays and Razorsharks being pretty underwhelming.

 

That's pretty much all on my list going from needs to change to would be nice to change.

[Guest Triszin]

Marker Lights:

- ignores to hit penalties

 

Multitracker:

A. - Multitracker counts as 2 markerlights, you can fire the multi tracker in addition to the rest of the weapon systems on a model that has it.

 

B. - when attacking a squad of 5 or more, add +1 to hit.

 

Counter fire Defense:

- hits on overwatch of 5+?

 

Kroot:

I think we can look at the GSC biophagus and genereal GSC rules for ways we can improve them

- give a shaper the GSC biophagus ability where he can super charge a squad at a chance of death to the squad, for the rest of the game, random roll for one of the following +1T,+1W,+1A

 

PLasma rifle:
change stats to

30" S7 rapid fire 1 ap -3 damage 1

 

plasma accelerator rifle

change stats to

30" S7 Rapid fire 2 ap -3 dam 2

 

something like this?

[Bryan Blaire]

The problem with changing stats like that is then you need to deal with follow on effects, like the high intensity plasma rifle being as good in some ways as the fusion blaster/collider.

[Happy-inquisitor]

If we talk about what NEEDS to get changed then I'd say:

Markerlights being affected by hit penalties,

the Shaper being useless compared to an Ethereal,

Kroot being a strictly worse Troop choice than Firewarriors as they can do less while also having a higher minimum cost per squad so they don't even serve well to fill detachments,

Reviewing various support systems like for example the Multi-tracker,

and Skyrays and Razorsharks being pretty underwhelming.

 

That's pretty much all on my list going from needs to change to would be nice to change.

 

 

Point 1 agreed, T'au have limited competitive builds due to stacking -1 penalties to hit and markerlights are not a fix for it. Doubt if any change is likely. The same can really be said of other minor issues like the multi-tracker, we can all see that it is useless but it is unlikely to be changed and unlike the penalty to hit problem it does not really impact our games much.

 

The shaper and the kroot problems need fixing with an auxiliaries codex. We should all be asking for one. The problem with kroot is basically a lack of synergy and a lack of stratagems.

 

I actually disagree on the Skyray, if you really commit to a seeker missile alpha-strike with skyrays it is powerful stuff. Our flyers are however still rather sad, they always have been and still are just a bit underwhelming. A points drop on the razorshark helped a bit but not enough, it would have to be really cheap to consider worthwhile because it is fragile and has mediocre damage output.

[Marshlands]

In terms of jointly agreeing something for a survey, perhaps a simpler message along the lines of "Review how markerlights work and how tau can deal with multiple penalties to hit"

[Panzer]

Yeah I would avoid making concrete suggestions. Company don't like those from random people. If they wanted such they'd invite us to playtest and help developing the game.

[Trevak Dal]

Skyrays should have infinite seekers but can only fire every other shooting phase (up to their maximum amount they carry)

 

Plasma rifles 30" rapid fire 2 or 30" rapid 1 damage 2.

[Panzer]

Considering that most games go only about 3 turns and how important it is to do as much damage as possible in those turns I'd hate the Skyray to shoot only turn 1 and 3 at best. I get the idea behind it but I don't think it's going to work with how the game currently is.

[Marshlands]

Skyrays really aren't that bad now, at least compared to say hammerheads or other non battlesuit tau big stuff (I.e the stuff that sucks). Id prefer that to hammerheads or even the Stormsurge personally, they're even bordering useful against fliers, they just need a stratagem to refuel missiles, which should just be a generic tau stratagem anyway...

[Waking Dreamer]

FSE Sept Tenet

 

- Devastating Counter Strike: When shooting enemies at enemies 12" or less with units that have this tenet, re-roll all failed wound rolls.

 

Currently, it's only 6" or less. That's way too short of a range. Unit's that manage to get within this range are either half strength/dead or worse already, or would likely have charged instead (Farsight, Fusion Blades Commander etc.).

 

Currently, the re-rolls 1s to wound is the minimum buff you could receive also. Hardly something your entire FSE army can take advantage of nor plan around / rely upon. So the FSE tenet is pretty weak and usually ignored 95% of the time because basically it's a very high risk, low reward army buff. 12" range and re-roll to wound makes it a high risk, moderate reward army buff at least.

[Guest Triszin]

did a quick update in the OP

[H311fi5h]

I've just started collecting Tau so I'm no expert, but what is your problem with Kroot? The top performing Tau player at the lvo was using two units and said in an interview that he will be adding a third to his list. In my local meta I see an increasing number of Kroot being used as well. A friend of mine and very experienced tournament played just recently called them his MVP unit, for their ability to screen and score early.

I don't want to derail the thread into a Kroot debate, just wondering why you think they need fixing.

[Panzer]

I've just started collecting Tau so I'm no expert, but what is your problem with Kroot? The top performing Tau player at the lvo was using two units and said in an interview that he will be adding a third to his list. In my local meta I see an increasing number of Kroot being used as well. A friend of mine and very experienced tournament played just recently called them his MVP unit, for their ability to screen and score early.

I don't want to derail the thread into a Kroot debate, just wondering why you think they need fixing.

 

I guess there are always some pro players who try different things and are reasonably successful with it due their experience, however my isse with Kroot is that compared to Firewarriors they:

 - die faster

 - shoot worse

 - cost more as MSU due having a minimum size of 10 instead of 5 like Firewarrior so they are worse at filling detachments

 - get pretty much 0 support from the Codex as they don't benefit from any Sept Tenets and don't have any Stratagems for them. They can benefit from Markerlights like anything in a T'au army and Ethereal buffs them quite a bit with their LD aura which should be the Shapers job normally.

 

The scout move is nice and they do cost less per model than Firewarriors but for the scout move I could just take Pathfinder if I wanted to and I don't feel like 2ppm difference outweights the difference between Sv6+/Sv4+, Bolter/Pulse Rifle and the whole Sept Tenet and Stratagem package.

 

That being said they are perfectly fine in casual games. My list always include Kroot as well as Pathfinder since they fit my armys theme perfectly and I love the Kroot fluff. ;)