McGirth Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It is my usual nature to go heavy into something before I have even played more than an intro game, and 40k was no different. I was always aware of 40k but never got into it until 8th Ed was released. Always knew I wanted to play Space Marines but until someone pointed me into the direction of the Black Templar I didn't realise how much. After reading some of the fluff I had made up my mind BT was for me. So upon the release of 8th Edition I bought the Dark Imperium boxed set, and managed to trade Death Guard half for someone elses Marines half. I also managed to grab a couple of bits from my local store (also got donated a few things) and ordered a couple of models from GW online. Long story short I moved house and never actually played the game. Until this week, hunted out the models i had and played with a mate (both of us new and not entirely sure what we were doing but we managed to fudge through it). Anyway really enjoyed it and am now looking to expand on what i have. I like the idea of close combat crusader squads and really want to get into peoples faces. So far i have the following and i was just wondering what advice you would have for my next few purchases to improve / compliment what i already have. Helbrecht Grimaldus Emperors Champion 2x Primaris Captains 4x Prim. Lieutenants 2x Prim. Ancients 4x 5 man Prim. Intercessor Squads 2x 3 man Prim. Inceptor Squads 2x 5 man Prim. Hellblaster Squads 5 man Terminator Assault Squad 3 man Centurion Devastator Squad 2x 10 man Crusader Squads 2x Rhinos Land Raider Crusader Whats my next step, thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Maybe a drop pod? We are a fleet based chapter afterall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5260857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 You have chosen an amazing chapter, the best to be hones, but let's not affect the morale of the lesser chapters in the Imperium by spreading this information. Drop pods are amazing to look at and necessary lore-wise; but are utter garbage in the game. I'd recommend that you get more Marines: a box of Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans (maybe followed up with a Tactical Squad) - that way you'll have a nice selection of weapons to use with your models and should also 'future proof' your army, especially if you'll be willing to go the extra mile and magnetise (some of) your crusaders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5260903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 You have chosen an amazing chapter, the best to be hones, but let's not affect the morale of the lesser chapters in the Imperium by spreading this information. Drop pods are amazing to look at and necessary lore-wise; but are utter garbage in the game. I'd recommend that you get more Marines: a box of Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans (maybe followed up with a Tactical Squad) - that way you'll have a nice selection of weapons to use with your models and should also 'future proof' your army, especially if you'll be willing to go the extra mile and magnetise (some of) your crusaders. Disagree vehemently. Well kinda, Drop Pods are nice one of in a list. Having a single pod in a list for “Hammers” (Sword Brothern/Company Veterans) whom lack their own deployment method and putting them in a rhino or razor espacially in an all infantry list is a deathwish. All Pods (3+) lists are waste of points. But one or two pods for a relatively garunteed safe deployment of a couple otherwise fragile squads is worth the price of admission. Oh and Neophytes/Chapter Upgrade. And finally, box or two of our sword brothern. I prefer them over the standard veteran kits because I find between them, my upgrade sprew and lesser extent IF Templar Brothern and Black Templar Shields from Forge World. I have plenty of bits and sprews. Sword Brothern Models make great basis for characters too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5260930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilyth Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 If you want to build a stronger list, one weakness you seem to have atm is a lack of ranged anti-tank weapons. This could be fixed by a squad of devastators w/2x lascannons or a Razorback w/Lascannons or a predator or ... but since you said you like to get close and personal, you could go with a venerable dreadnought (Twin Las + CCW or twin las + ml) or a redemptor dreadnought (macro plasmaincinerator + onslaught cannon or dual onslaught cannons), both of which can provide AT at range but can also go bash stuff in meelee if needed. If you want to go in a more fluffy direction, you could add a squad w/neophytes or add neophytes to existing squads. (I don't have the codex at hand atm, so I don't know which squads can take neophytes.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I'd recommend a couple of Neophyte boxes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGirth Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Thanks for all the tips guys. I had a rummage through a load of boxes last night and found 2 boxes of scouts which i can only assume i got to bulk out my crusader squads as neophytes. I agree i need some better anti tank options, the centurion devastators seem too costly once ive thrown twin lascannons on them. Venerable dreadnought seems to carry more bang for its buck. Dont think a predator will go a miss either. After them 2 purchases ill focus on evening out my crusader squads, currently all 20 are modelled for chainswords and bolt pistols and all sword brothers have two lightning claws. So to expand on that what other load outs should i be looking at for the crusader squads. Thanks again for all the tips so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 You have a good core for an army and fairly diversified units... Only one tank though? And no dreadnoughts? I think this would be where I'd place my focus on nexxt. Seems you're already looking in that direction though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Mortis Contemptors seem quite popular at the moment for ranged firepower. You could buy one and magnetise the arms to swap it between a regular and Mortis? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolvar Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Only 20 crusaders seems... too few in my book. I'd grab another 20 crusaders and 20 neophytes, fitting at the end half with bolter, half with pistol+chainsword, both for your total initiates and neophytes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Also, magnets for special gear like on Sword Brethren Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5261950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGirth Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 I am now looking to start putting paint to the models, ive picked out my scheme which is pretty standard but im going to go with the blue highlights as opposed to the greys as i think they will end up looking better. My next question is shoulder pads, i did manage to pick up a BT upgrade kit and also get my hands on a load of transfers from friends. Its the colour scheme that has me slightly confused, i found an image (but struggling to include on the post) with colour schemes for Neophyte, Initiate, Assault squad, Sword Brethren, Chaplain & Apthecary. My confusion is where everything fits in to these categories. Would all the intercessors, hellblasters, inceptors just be classed as initiates ? Also how about elite choices such as vanguard veteran squad, again initiates? Im guessing anything with assault in the name such as terminator assault squad would be the white black cross red trim. What about captains, lieutenants, ancients the emperors champion and helbrecht himself, would they all follow the Chaplain colour scheme ? Sorry for the billion questions, im trying to keep my spam to within 1 post Ill hopefully get some time sunday to paint up a test model and ill post some pics for criticism and tips before the mass production begins. Again thanks to all in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Veterans = sword brethren Scouts = neophytes Normal marine dudes = initiate Fast attack slots I would count as assault squad. Lt/cptn i'd go with whatever you like or sword brethren odr modified sword brethren, as they are chosen from the ranks of the sword brethren. But every marine of the rank of swordbrother can pick their own heraldry so you can vary the paint schemes for elites and hqs a bit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 One of the good things about the Black Templars is that, because they're so independent, you can really apply whatever system you want. As for the official color schemes, there are two sets of shoulder pad insignias. You're referring to the classic one for "oldmarines": Initiates: Crusader Squads, Tactical Squads, Devastator Squads, and pretty much everything that's not in another category. Neophytes: Neophytes (Crusader Squads), Scouts, Scout Bikers Assault Squads: Assault Squads, maybe Bikers and Assault Bikers but maybe not. Sword Brethren: Company Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, Terminators of any flavor, Ancients, and anyone else that would be in the "inner circle" of the Crusade. Chaplain: Chaplains Apothecary: Apothecaries Other HQ units are up to you. Chaplains are a specific group in the Astartes hierarchy, so I wouldn't apply that scheme to everyone else. The Emperor's Champion is often painted as a simple Initiate. Helbrecht has his own color scheme. Lieutenants often have gold trimmed pauldrons, and I would imagine that Captains would likely follow suit. There's also a new system for Primaris: Battle Line: Intercessors, maybe Reivers Close Support: Inceptors, maybe Aggressors and/or Reivers Fire Support: Hellblasters, maybe Aggressors I don't like applying the old Chaplain scheme to a wider group, so I lump Fire Support in with Battle Line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Chaplain Matthias+ Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 The scheme you found is the "old" pre-primaris one and almost everyone likes it better. I'd go with that. Neophytes are anyone in scout armor. Sword brethren are any veteran, Terminator, and also squad sargents. Fast attack are assault squads and such. Everyone else is an initiate. Edit: oh yeah and chaplains and apothecaries are self explanitory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGirth Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 The scheme you found is the "old" pre-primaris one and almost everyone likes it better. I'd go with that. Agreed, i had not come across the new scheme until it was linked above, and after a quick scan i do prefer the "old" scheme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 One of the good things about the Black Templars is that, because they're so independent, you can really apply whatever system you want. As for the official color schemes, there are two sets of shoulder pad insignias. You're referring to the classic one for "oldmarines": Initiates: Crusader Squads, Tactical Squads, Devastator Squads, and pretty much everything that's not in another category. Neophytes: Neophytes (Crusader Squads), Scouts, Scout Bikers Assault Squads: Assault Squads, maybe Bikers and Assault Bikers but maybe not. Sword Brethren: Company Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, Terminators of any flavor, Ancients, and anyone else that would be in the "inner circle" of the Crusade. Chaplain: Chaplains Apothecary: Apothecaries Other HQ units are up to you. Chaplains are a specific group in the Astartes hierarchy, so I wouldn't apply that scheme to everyone else. The Emperor's Champion is often painted as a simple Initiate. Helbrecht has his own color scheme. Lieutenants often have gold trimmed pauldrons, and I would imagine that Captains would likely follow suit. There's also a new system for Primaris: Battle Line: Intercessors, maybe Reivers Close Support: Inceptors, maybe Aggressors and/or Reivers Fire Support: Hellblasters, maybe Aggressors I don't like applying the old Chaplain scheme to a wider group, so I lump Fire Support in with Battle Line. The 8th edition codex is actually pretty clear about what gets what: Battleline: Intercessors, Tactical marines Close support: Inceptors, Reivers, Assault Squads, Assault Centurions, Bikes & Attack bikes, Landspeeders, Fire support: Hellblasters, Aggressors, Devestators, Devestator Centurions With Battleline and Fire Support having the same look for Templar (Black trim, black cross, white background), you only really need to keep check on what gets a red trim (close support). Also all veterans of course get the Swordbrethren colours. It's essentially the same theme as the old theme but neglects to differentiate chaplains and apothecaries (I still do them old style of my own accord though) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Of course they changed it again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Oh right, you were referencing the tentative scheme from Dark Imperium? That's just wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Yeah, Commodious, you're order is out. The Codex came after that image. Which is one of the many recent contradictions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crovan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I'll have relatively few Primaris marines in my army for awhile (having collected a few thousand points of mini marines back in the day), but I think I'm going with the "Close Support" red trim on my inceptors and the Sword Brethren markings for my Primaris Ancient (makes sense, since he's supposed to be a veteran badass imo). The Aggressors I'm less sure about. I could see an argument for either red or black trim. Of course, I'll have to pull off some DW shoulder pads off mine first, since I got them second hand. For characters, I think you can have a lot more free reign. Look at Helbrecht. Dude's armor is solid gold. Your characters are the heroes of the heroes. They're centuries' old veterans of countless wars. They probably developed their own style over the years. In fact, the idea of personal heraldry is pretty darn fluffy for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5262711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Bring those Crusader squads up to 20 then Deredo and or Scorpius whirlwind for a lil UMPH! Barring that ThunderFirecannons are choice i hear and manned by a Techmarine. Who can repair the Castellan! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5263298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Bring those Crusader squads up to 20 then Deredo and or Scorpius whirlwind for a lil UMPH! Barring that ThunderFirecannons are choice i hear and manned by a Techmarine. Who can repair the Castellan! But if there's no Techmarine within 6" of the TFC, it's removed from play. And it won't really manage to keep up with the Castellan or even the Techmarine...You'd need a Techmarine on a Bike for dedicated Knight Duty. Also, when has a Castellan ever been mentioned this thread? o.0 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5263330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Sorry i just get carried away sometimes. I heard Knghts are the beezkneez competitively and the mental image of FullCrusader squads flanking one arrayed 4 battle....chills! Sorry Ill shut up now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5264746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Sorry i just get carried away sometimes. I heard Knghts are the beezkneez competitively and the mental image of FullCrusader squads flanking one arrayed 4 battle....chills! Sorry Ill shut up now Oh, I love that image as well. In fact, 2 Bike Techies, 3 Crusader Squads of any composition and a Knight? Hell, I want that! Templar Knights... there's something the world has never seen before Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354011-slow-starter-next-purchase-advice/#findComment-5264965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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