anarchistscourge Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 So since I got my codex last week, I've been tinkering with lists non stop. We have so many great stratagems, that we need 15+ CP to make use of them all. Having a look, the cheapest brigade we could do is just shy of 800pts (Iconward, Jackal Alphus, Primus, 6x min Broodbrother Squads, 3x min Metamorph squads, 3x sentinels, 3x heavy weapon teams) this would leave 1200pts for juicier units like Aberrants, Acolytes etc. Now because brood brothers dont get Cult Creed, I am loath to take them and would rather have neophytes and Acolytes. Same goes for the sentinels, I would rather take Atalans. Problem is Acolytes want to be in close and so benefit from Twisted Helix, CotFAE or even Pauper Princes, while the Atalans work bust as Rusted Claw as do the neophytes (that or Bladed Cog). So would it be better to just go with something like 3 different battalions allowing us to make most use of the different Creeds, or do the sheer amount of cheap bodies and CPs make up the lack of optimized creeds? What are everyone's thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I think going mixed creeds needs very careful thought. Any hoard benefits from A Patriarch and any close combat unit wants a primus, so unless you're doubling up on these guys might find yourself near a unit but not granting a buff because of the creed The brigade defo is less efficient from a list optimisation perspective but it's just so damn hard to get the cp otherwise. If not going brigade I guess just try and manage what you actually spend cp on (e.g Do you really need those extra relics etc) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5260936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyB Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1x Brigade = 12CP 3x Battalion = 3x5CP = 15CP Am I missing something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5260958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 I agree mixing creeds needs some thought, and it can be a pain to fill out HQ's with the right characters (only taking 1 per detachment). It's easy enough to fill out 3 Battalions for the CP and makes it easier to mix the detachments. The majority of lists ive been building, I've taken at least 1 of every HQ choice, and due to their buffs and warlord traits (CotFAE: Inscrutable Cunning) its been very finicky fitting them in. The ones I havent had trouble with are the Patriarch as they dont get Cult creed and can still buff genestealers of a different creed and then the Magus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5260972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1x Brigade = 12CP 3x Battalion = 3x5CP = 15CP Am I missing something? Battalion gives more CP but running 3 of them requires 6 HQ's while the Brigade only needs 3. Here is what I am trying: I included the guard detachment to give the brood brothers orders (RAW it works, will probably need an FAQ) Its 16CP The guard detachment costs about the same as a GSC Battalion of Acolytes though, so I could easily go up to 20CP. I don't see my brigade as a trap since all the brood brothers are set up to be cheap screening units while the troops fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5260977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 What Cult Creed are you running your brigade as? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5260990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyB Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Oh, yeah. HQ tax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I agree mixing creeds needs some thought, and it can be a pain to fill out HQ's with the right characters (only taking 1 per detachment). It's easy enough to fill out 3 Battalions for the CP and makes it easier to mix the detachments. The majority of lists ive been building, I've taken at least 1 of every HQ choice, and due to their buffs and warlord traits (CotFAE: Inscrutable Cunning) its been very finicky fitting them in. The ones I havent had trouble with are the Patriarch as they dont get Cult creed and can still buff genestealers of a different creed and then the Magus. Yeah generally the same, although it's frustrating to not have fearless when you want it, the primus and clamavus or if you're shooty the kelermorph and alphus are the tricky ones Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Bringing a Nexos too, if you want those CPs on 5+ instead of 6 then it needs to be the same as the Primus/clamavus. The more I think about it the better magus are for “hq tax” I think out of all the auras there’s is one that, although nice to have, isn’t a must Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 What Cult Creed are you running your brigade as? I actually haven't decided yet. Probably the +1 armor one though, as these guys will probably spend a lot of time getting shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 +1 save is rusted claw, which I think is probably going to be my go to for a brigade. Also works well with the awesome looking Atalans which I’ll be taking. Bladed cog is similar with the 6++ and goes well with your neophytes letting them move and shoot the mining lasers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I don't have any Atlans, I don't know if they will fit with my playstyle, makining my choice of cult a lot more difficult. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 The Rusted Claw buff doesn't help the Atalans that much. It buffs a 1 in 5 heavy weapon for the squad (and only if you don't take the flamer weapon) and it buffs their shotguns, but not the two at the same time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 The Rusted Claw buff doesn't help the Atalans that much. It buffs a 1 in 5 heavy weapon for the squad (and only if you don't take the flamer weapon) and it buffs their shotguns, but not the two at the same time. The rusted claw stratagem and warlord trait aren't terribly useful either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 So the reason for rusted claw is the +1 save for my neophtyes which will be holding the backfield, that and I like the idea of blowing 5CP on popping the Atalans up just outside 3" with Lying in Wait, blowing the demo charges with Extra Explosives (getting a +1 to hit from the Jackal) and then running away with Rusted claw stratagem (which also gives +1 to hit and wound). Just built a brigade list which I'm fairly happy about. Brigade of Bladed Cog, Battalion of Rusted Claw and a Vanguard of CotFAE. so thats 21 CP (12 from brigade, 5 from battalion, 1 from vanguard and 3 from being battle forged) Right off the bat I'll be spending 6 with BroodCoven, 2 Extra Relics, Anointed Throng and Field Commander. 1 of the extra warlord traits will be Inscrutable Cunning so ill have a minimum of 16 to start the battle with and able to get 1CP back a turn with the Nexos on a 5+ for my Strategems and 6+ for my opponents. ++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [72 PL, 1268pts, -5CP] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog Specialist Detachment: Anointed Throng [-1CP] Stratagem: Grandsire's Gifts [-3CP]: 2 Extra Sacred Relics + HQ + Abominant [6 PL, 105pts, -1CP]: Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah, Stratagem: Field Commander, Warlord Trait: Insidious Mindwyrm Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant Primus [4 PL, 75pts]: Bonesword, Broodcoven Primus, Warlord Trait: Alien Majesty + Troops + Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 65pts]: Cult Icon . 2x Acolyte Hybrid . 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 65pts]: Cult Icon . 2x Acolyte Hybrid . 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 65pts]: Cult Icon . 2x Acolyte Hybrid . 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher . Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher . Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher . Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol + Elites + Aberrants [14 PL, 254pts] . 4x Aberrant (Hammer): 4x Heavy Power Hammer . 4x Aberrant (Pick): 4x Power Pick . Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon Clamavus [3 PL, 55pts] Kelermorph [3 PL, 60pts] + Fast Attack + Cult Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 40pts] . Cult Armoured Sentinel: Autocannon Cult Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 40pts] . Cult Armoured Sentinel: Autocannon Cult Armoured Sentinels [3 PL, 40pts] . Cult Armoured Sentinel: Autocannon + Heavy Support + Brood Brothers Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 39pts] . 3x Brood Brothers Weapons Team: 3x Mortar Brood Brothers Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 78pts] . 3x Brood Brothers Weapons Team: 3x Lascannon Brood Brothers Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 39pts] . 3x Brood Brothers Weapons Team: 3x Mortar ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [31 PL, 507pts, -1CP] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw Stratagem: Broodcoven [-1CP] + HQ + Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts] Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]: Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Biomorph Adaptation + Troops + Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 54pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Heavy Stubber . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 54pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Heavy Stubber . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 54pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid . 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): 2x Heavy Stubber . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol + Elites + Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Silencer Sniper Rifle, The Gift from Beyond + Fast Attack + Atalan Jackals [5 PL, 90pts] . 4x Atalan Jackal: Demolition Charge, Shotgun . Atalan Leader: Demolition Charge, Grenade Launcher . Atalan Wolfquad: Mining Laser, Shotgun ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [12 PL, 225pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor + HQ + Magus [4 PL, 80pts]: Broodcoven Magus, Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Might From Beyond, Warlord Trait: Inscrutable Cunning + Elites + Clamavus [3 PL, 55pts] Locus [2 PL, 40pts] Nexos [3 PL, 50pts] ++ Total: [115 PL, 2000pts, -6CP] ++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Nasty list. I must say it feels nice to be able to rely fully on our own Codex to get the CP we need and not have to dip our toes into "soup". Not that "soup" is necessarily a bad thing, it just makes a nice change from the current trend. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Completely agree. I almost always run mono codex, I think further down the line I might play around with a Tyranids battalion with genestealers, and maybe look at a spearhead of guard tanks. But for the moment I’m pretty happy with solo GSC they have enough bodies to swamp the board and enough punch in the right places to work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yeah, my preferred choice is three battalions with a roughly equal distribution of points and units between them and without any additional AM stuff (its kind of tempting, but would feel like a teensy bit of a cheat to me personally, if I wanna play AM then I should get the AM dex (personal view for me, other viewpoints are available at all good retail outlets)). I also prefer not to mix the creeds - GC seem to rely predominantly on a network of supporting characters to lend stat and roll improvements to the main body of the troops and this to me starts to get into 'that guy' territory if you begin mixing and matching the creeds. Add into this the fact that the creed-exclusive relics and stratagems add another layer of complexity and you begin to lose a lot of the 'fun' from playing as GC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 At the moment a lot of what I'm doing is just theory crafting, but it is true I have been known to be 'that guy'. Luckily I generally only play my brother, who is well aware before time what my list can do, which avoids those 'gotcha moments'. It must be said that through building all my lists, I've gotten a very good grasp of what all the characters do, what other units they support etc. Probably a total different matter when it comes to game time though. Im going to making a character reference card with abilities aura's etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yeah, i'm going to have to write everything out in modified profiles etc. my aberrant warlord that I'm planning has the twisted helix cult trait, biomorph adaptations, and the elixir of the prime specimen. So thats a lot of changes to the codex profile to keep track of :) Another factor in the 'don't split your creeds' argument is that you will have three bits of your army doing separate things - to me that will dilute the army's effectiveness rather than optimise anything. Assuming that things go wrong to, say, the four armed emperor "wing" of an army, their capabilities are then removed from the game and there is nothing to replace them. Having a whole army dedicated to a mono-cult means that there are more things to replace what you lose and you get to build the army around a single theme/philosophy (if you will). To me, that will always be stronger than an army that tries to do everything at once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal van Trapp Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 So my current armylist (that I'll be testing for the first time tonight) is 3 batallions 1 CotFAE with all my close range/melee units, 1 Bladed Cog with all my heavy fire support (some mining lasers and seismic cannons), and 1 tyranid kraken detachment with a broodlord, 2 genestealers and some extra fire support (in the form of warriors, gants, and goyles) My major reason for separating the units is because my melee units benefit from the FAE creed while my heavy weapon toting units benefit more from the Bladed Cog creed. I'm not sure how this will all work but I shall be testing it tonight! As far as the 3 battalions vs 1 brigade is concerned, I have no issue with the 6 HQ tax (I already want basically 1 of each HQ) and I also dont like brood brothers and how they do not benefit from cult creeds so there are all of 1 cult choice for both fast attack and heavy support, the Atlans are not exactly the best unit in the game for GSC (they're cool looking but not particularly useful) rock grinders are really cool but I just dont have any yet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 So my current armylist (that I'll be testing for the first time tonight) is 3 batallions 1 CotFAE with all my close range/melee units, 1 Bladed Cog with all my heavy fire support (some mining lasers and seismic cannons), and 1 tyranid kraken detachment with a broodlord, 2 genestealers and some extra fire support (in the form of warriors, gants, and goyles) My major reason for separating the units is because my melee units benefit from the FAE creed while my heavy weapon toting units benefit more from the Bladed Cog creed. I'm not sure how this will all work but I shall be testing it tonight! As far as the 3 battalions vs 1 brigade is concerned, I have no issue with the 6 HQ tax (I already want basically 1 of each HQ) and I also dont like brood brothers and how they do not benefit from cult creeds so there are all of 1 cult choice for both fast attack and heavy support, the Atlans are not exactly the best unit in the game for GSC (they're cool looking but not particularly useful) rock grinders are really cool but I just dont have any yet I second this, Brood brothers losing Cult Creed really puts me off them, altho there is something to be said for heavy weapons teams. Its the same with genestealers and the to some degree the patriarch. I think if im going to be using genestealers they will be in a Kraken Nids detachment, maybe once in a blue moon ill run them as GSC but that 3d6 pick highest for advance is just amazing! I always try to build armies in a balanced way, so although I may have a shooting focus, I still want some element of close combat and vice versa. In a mono Creed army, I would have some units that gain no benefit from the creed. If I were to do a close combat focused army (Creed of choice for me is FAE), i would still have 2-3 10man Neophytes to sit at the back and camp objectives. If i was just to run FAE the neophytes gain no benefit whatsoever, hence a seperate detachment choosing Rusted Claw. This is also where I put my sanctus for a 2+ save in cover vs AP0, AP -1 I do agree Atalans aren't a top tier pick for us, but god damn I'm determined to make them work. Also the look on my opponents face when they pop up and throw 5d6 str 8, D3 damage shots at their precious unit, will be priceless and well worth it. Also I got very bored of the few units I had access to with the index and want to broaden the models i have (not just infantry) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yes, the HQs are not too much of a tax for me either because I already wanted about six of them in the army :) alphas, a primus, Magi (definitely not Maguses), and a few others besides so it was no great hardship for me. Although I have splashed out on three relics to be spread out amongst them, which limits me to 15CP rather than the 18. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 So I made a mistake and my previous list was missing a HQ.This is my most recent shot at the Brigade+Battalion setup Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistscourge Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Looking good! I would swap the patriarch and the Primus. 1st because you get CP back from enemy use on a 5+ with the Nexos and Primus being same cult. 2nd he’s better off supporting the acolytes. Also why scout sentinels over armoured? They are the same point and with the range on the autocannon I would prefer the 3+ save. You want them stationary anyway Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354012-gsc-brigade-a-trap/#findComment-5261747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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