Ghost of Nuceria (Horus Heresy/Primarch short story)

[DarkChaplain]

Depends on how we look at it. The Emperor basically pushed him to go and take Necare on solo, with no support, fully knowing he would fail and needing to go and show off by saving him. His war was basically cut short by the Emperor's arrival, and the Big E wanted to humble him.

[Lord_Caerolion]

He's also the only Primarch (we know of) who actually failed on his homeworld. Everybody else rose to a position of power within their society. Angron did, too, but only among slaves. Unlike his brothers, he was irreversably compromised, the only one among them who suffered damage he could never recover from.

 

Seeing how Angron was one of the last to be found, it's a pretty massive PR disaster to have a Primarch that utterly failed before his discovery. With the Great Crusade being past the midway point, and Primarchs being heralded as infallible demigods, to the point where their actual failures or even missteps are hushed up (see: Corax: Lord of Shadows), having one who is objective damaged and unstable, proving the entire line's vulnerability, is something that might cast doubt on the entire endeavour, the Emperor's workings and the leadership of the Crusade itself.

 

Angron got the short end of the stick, to no fault of his own, but as terrible as his individual fate was, it could have very well destabilized the Great Crusade's achievements and shaken up compliances if widely known. And this discovery happened before the 2nd Lost Primarch was found, and most likely before the first was excommunicated. While some of the Primarchs were difficult to handle, the Emperor hadn't had to consider actually getting rid of one yet.

 

Interesting to think that there could be another aspect to it, the fact that Nuceria was a world within Ultramar (well, the 500 worlds). Guilliman had supposedly already been found long before Angron was, so to have knowledge come out that one of the Emperors sons was mutilated and nearly killed on a planet that came under the domain of a Primarch who was apparently an organizational genius. How was it that Angron slipped the notice of Guilliman?

 

In Guilliman's defense, it's not like Nuceria was probably advertising the fact that they had a super-being fighting in their gladiator pits, well, advertising it off-world at least. 

[MarineRaider]

 

He's also the only Primarch (we know of) who actually failed on his homeworld. Everybody else rose to a position of power within their society. Angron did, too, but only among slaves. Unlike his brothers, he was irreversably compromised, the only one among them who suffered damage he could never recover from.

 

Seeing how Angron was one of the last to be found, it's a pretty massive PR disaster to have a Primarch that utterly failed before his discovery. With the Great Crusade being past the midway point, and Primarchs being heralded as infallible demigods, to the point where their actual failures or even missteps are hushed up (see: Corax: Lord of Shadows), having one who is objective damaged and unstable, proving the entire line's vulnerability, is something that might cast doubt on the entire endeavour, the Emperor's workings and the leadership of the Crusade itself.

 

Angron got the short end of the stick, to no fault of his own, but as terrible as his individual fate was, it could have very well destabilized the Great Crusade's achievements and shaken up compliances if widely known. And this discovery happened before the 2nd Lost Primarch was found, and most likely before the first was excommunicated. While some of the Primarchs were difficult to handle, the Emperor hadn't had to consider actually getting rid of one yet.

 

Interesting to think that there could be another aspect to it, the fact that Nuceria was a world within Ultramar (well, the 500 worlds). Guilliman had supposedly already been found long before Angron was, so to have knowledge come out that one of the Emperors sons was mutilated and nearly killed on a planet that came under the domain of a Primarch who was apparently an organizational genius. How was it that Angron slipped the notice of Guilliman?

 

In Guilliman's defense, it's not like Nuceria was probably advertising the fact that they had a super-being fighting in their gladiator pits, well, advertising it off-world at least. 

 

 

I read this today. Your post took some of the steam out my argument about compliance. It now raises the issue you brought up, how in the heck did RG allow this to happen on one of the 500 worlds? This makes zero sense, wouldn't there be an Ultramarine presence on this world? Also why in the world would The E place an angry Primarch on his flagship and surround him with his cherished Custodes? It would not take a Alpha grade to guess what was going to happen. Interesting he watched first-hand how Russ met his legion but I guess this one is up to them?

 

Not buying this " I'm in a rush" nonsense. This is like a lot of the holes in the lore but this only makes it worse. The E should have saved his warriors and easily could have. Then he could have gone straight to the source on how the implants were installed and seen firsthand if their was a way to remove them while wiping out in front of Angron the entire group responsible, even allowing Angron to partake. He would have Angron's loyalty or at the least a measure of gratitude. THAT would have gone a long way down the road......

[Antaonix]

'When we found you, we did not know what you wanted of us. Not really. Nothing we did could earn your approval. The rulers of Nuceria, the high-riders, quickly made their peace with Guilliman after your rebellion was ended, and gladly joined with the empire of Ultramar. Though you would not allow us to return there, we thought to mark the sacrifice that you and the Desh'ean gladiators had unknowingly made for us. For the Imperium.'

-Khârn, in 'Prince of Blood'

 

RG didn't knew anything about Angron and his rebel. Nuceria joined 500 worlds after Emperor found Angron.

 

Also, some of you guys claim that Emperor should be nicer to him. However, it only works when Angron has a normal mental, normal mind. See what happens to Mortarion, Perturabo. Emperor did nice to them but they betrayed him. Angron would rebel against Emperor anyway because he hates Tyrant, Oppressor. His thought does not match at all with Emperor's vision. Emperor sees it, so let Angron just hate him. I think Emperor didn't expect him to be loyal or follow.

[mc warhammer]

yeah, i didn't expect the emperor to be waiting with a bouquet of flowers, but if malcador can brain freeze horus, i'd think the emp could do something similar with angron. maybe even relieve the nails long enough to have a semi-reasonable discussion?

 

the only answer that really works is that he didn't want to.

[Antaonix]

 

yeah, i didn't expect the emperor to be waiting with a bouquet of flowers, but if malcador can brain freeze horus, i'd think the emp could do something similar with angron. maybe even relieve the nails long enough to have a semi-reasonable discussion?

 

the only answer that really works is that he didn't want to.

In this short story, Nail itself can resist against Emperor's psychic. Everytime Emperor talks to Angron with psychic, it makes angron more painful and even urge him to kill Emperor.

[Lord_Caerolion]

So use the Mechanicus. You know, one of the most knowledgable organizations in the galaxy, with the Emperor Himself there to assist.

The fact remains that the Emperor had an entire Legion of Astartes waiting in orbit, ready to fight alongside their father. You want Angron to be loyal? Have the War Hounds fight alongside the gladiators. Do that, and you've won Angrons loyalty. 

[Antaonix]

Emperor comfirms he cannot remove Nail when he talks with Arkhan land. It's Dark age technology thingy, so even Emperor himself cannot remove it without harming Angron.

 

Angron only sees another master from Emperor, not a liberator. We don't know exactly what would happen if Emperor helps Angron and save his comrades. What if it doesn't help at all about Angron's Loyalty? How that would be so sure that rescueing his comrades leads to loyalty of Angron?

 

If things go like that easily, there would be no heresy. Emperor defends Peturabo against Guilliman's accusation, but he betrayed. Emperor saves Mortarion's life, but he betrayed. Unless Angron and Emperor shares same vision, Emperor cannot get his loyalty whatever he does.

[mc warhammer]

i appreciate that they went to some lengths to explain that loophole away, and i imagine that the highriders themselves have no idea how the nails actually work...they just blindly manufacture and use them?

 

and i agree with you antaonix, i'd prefer that some of the betrayals come from the emperor's own mis-steps, rather than just chaos undermining his perfect plans

[Antaonix]

i appreciate that they went to some lengths to explain that loophole away, and i imagine that the highriders themselves have no idea how the nails actually work...they just blindly manufacture and use them?

 

and i agree with you antaonix, i'd prefer that some of the betrayals come from the emperor's own mis-steps, rather than just chaos undermining his perfect plans

It seems Nucerians retain plenty of Dark age technology. Some of high riders have silver wings which makes them actually flying, and others have some kind of iron man suit which described as a anti-grav gauntlet and boots.

 

And they are using Microwave Blaster, Monopilament vine, Sonic disruptor and Conversion beamer as their weapon.

 

I think writer wants to justify how could nucerians use high technology(Nail) just for gladiators.

[Taliesin]

Emperor comfirms he cannot remove Nail when he talks with Arkhan land. It's Dark age technology thingy, so even Emperor himself cannot remove it without harming Angron.

 

 

Where is that said, is that in this short?

[Marshal Loss]

 

Emperor comfirms he cannot remove Nail when he talks with Arkhan land. It's Dark age technology thingy, so even Emperor himself cannot remove it without harming Angron.

 

 

Where is that said, is that in this short?

 

 

It's in Master of Mankind.

 

 

 

‘Do you see?’ the Emperor asked.

Arkhan saw. The tendrils were sunk deep, rooted in the meat of the brain, threaded to the nervous system, and down in roughly serpentine coils around the spinal column. Every movement must have been agony for the primarch, feeding back into the base emotions of anger and spite.

Worse, the brain’s limbic lobe and insular cortex were more than just savaged by the pain engine’s insertion; they had been surgically attacked and removed even before implantation. The device hammered into his skull hadn’t ruined those sections of the brain – it had replaced them. Ugly black cybernetics showed on the internal scans, in place of entire sections of the primarch’s brain tissue.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Emperor comfirms he cannot remove Nail when he talks with Arkhan land. It's Dark age technology thingy, so even Emperor himself cannot remove it without harming Angron.

 

Angron only sees another master from Emperor, not a liberator. We don't know exactly what would happen if Emperor helps Angron and save his comrades. What if it doesn't help at all about Angron's Loyalty? How that would be so sure that rescueing his comrades leads to loyalty of Angron?

 

I'm aware that the Emperor points out he can't remove them in Master of Mankind, but that investigation is implied to happen long after Angron's discovery. The initial meeting still goes "whoa boy, this gladiator Primarch sure is angry! Oh well, I don't have time for this because reasons, so  it, his Legion can deal with it."

 

As for how the Emperor steals Angron away, it's because that's the thing that Angron constantly mentions as the major reason why he hates the Emperor. As you've said, Angron sees the Emperor as just another master instead of a liberator but that's because the Emperor didn't liberate Angron, he kidnapped him and left his brothers and sisters to die.

[Kilofix]

Remind me - in which book does it mention that Nucretia joins the Ultramar 500?

[Jareddm]

Remind me - in which book does it mention that Nucretia joins the Ultramar 500?

Betrayer.  Though it's not 100% clear if it was officially classified as one of the 500 Worlds, or in the process of becoming one, or simply a protectorate world.

[no I'm alpharius]

Is this really needed? After De'shea is one of the best shorts in the series. 

[DarkChaplain]

I will say yes. It does not overlap with After Desh'ea. It plays with the references AD made, but focuses more on Angron's final days on Nuceria, his brotherhood with the slaves, the threat of the high riders along with their hubris, and it is a work that prepares the floor for St. Martin's full novel which is supposedly set right after After Desh'ea. It reaches around to improve understanding of Angron's promise and the pain he felt losing these previously merely named slaves, and the lengths he went to for them.

Unlike After Desh'ea, it provides direct insights into Angron's state of mind, not just from the perspective of Khârn and Angron's words and grunts towards him.

[Marshal Rohr]

If Nuceria was one of the 500 World’s maybe Guilliman played some politics to get the Emperor from intervening on Angrons behalf. Simply spiriting him away in the night and allowing compliance to take hold with Guilliman reaping the rewards of the world’s resources.

[Kelborn]

Iiiiii don't think that this might be the case.

Guiliman wouldn't take away a work of one of his brothers on purpose. Maybe on Big Es edict. He'd help rebuilding it and so on.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Iiiiii don't think that this might be the case.

Guiliman wouldn't take away a work of one of his brothers on purpose. Maybe on Big Es edict. He'd help rebuilding it and so on.

 

Agreed.

 

Guilliman is alot of things, some of them not complimentary, but he isnt a thief. 

[Roomsky]

I thought it was fine, but unnecessary. I have to give St Martin credit though, he communicates a lot in a very short amount of time. Angron's nobility, charisma, and the lengths he goes for those close to him is is clear and believable. He gives a good bit of personality to the minor characters as well, all with very brief descriptions and few lines of dialogue. If nothing else, it makes me excited for Slave of Nuceria.

[Marshal Rohr]

It makes more sense for Guilliman to have been backchanneling compliance and Angron making it all worse than the Emperor just scooping him up without any of the other things he did for the other primarchs. He wouldn’t have known about the nails at the time. If anything that would’ve led the imperials to think the Nucerians might be extremely competent to capture and subdue a primarch for years. It’s not about Guilliman character. It’s about politics.