New Centurions info? (Weekender)

[depthcharge12]

Hey all, long time no see. I was wondering if anyone had more info on the new officers that the legions will be getting.

 

I saw we are supposed to get an armorer, warmonger, elderly care nurse (master of ancients lol), and warp dabblers.

 

Any more info on these guys or other officers I missed?

[Brofist]

What we know so far: Armorer dude gives master crafted ranged weapons in a unit, warmonger is 'between a preator and centurion' and confers deepstrike to his unit, no word from what I read about the dreadnaught boyfriend or warp dabblers

[StruManChu]

I believe the Master of Ancients can take a Dreadnought squad (of unknown type) in the same way a Praevian can take a squad of Vorax or Castellax - i.e. outside of the Force Org chart.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Hope they fix the Melta bomb interaction, or the dread squad is going to be even more hilarious than vorax. Also wondering if dreads will finally get Legiones Astartes

[Gorgoff]

Hope they fix the Melta bomb interaction, or the dread squad is going to be even more hilarious than vorax. Also wondering if dreads will finally get Legiones Astartes

You want 125p WE Dreadnoughts with 6A on the charge re-rolling 1 to wound and only one possible grenade in cc to conter that?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Yeah, Melta-Bombing is totally fine as it is right now.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You guys are misunderstanding, and I understand why, because it's a really niche interaction that you would only notice if you ran praevians a lot (and looked into allocation).

 

Basically, because of how wound allocation and the rules for grenades in melee work, if you allocate any grenade attack onto your marine (as in he'd need to be in base with someone using a grenade to start this off) the attacks are nullified.  

[Brofist]

Hahaha, damn that's a good one

[depthcharge12]

That’s straight up goofy, has anyone actually called you on that?

[Slips]

That’s straight up goofy, has anyone actually called you on that?

Its RAW though; thats how the interaction would play out since normally you cant choose to use Melta Bombs against non-vehicles/MCs

 

/shrug

[SkimaskMohawk]

That’s straight up goofy, has anyone actually called you on that?

No, because it's how the interaction works. And the counter to it is just don't use Grenades with the guys touching the praevian, then none can be allocated to him. Imagine vorax actually being a decent choice

[Charlo]

I'm probably missing something, but can one of my dudes break down the interaction please? Just want to understand it!

[Rabidbunneh]

I'm probably missing something, but can one of my dudes break down the interaction please? Just want to understand it!

I run Cybernetica, but I'd never heard of this until today, so I'll have a go at working it out.

 

You can use grenades against monstrous creatures in combat, but not infantry. As the Praevian is an infantry model in a unit of monstrous creatures, I think this causes the silliness.

 

A unit of 10 veterans with melta bombs attack 3 Vorax and a Praevian using said bombs. They hit 5 times, wound 5 times and the opponent allocates all hits on the Praevian, which would mean they don't work as you can't use grenades against infantry? Would that be right?

 

That's my reading of it, bit BS, I'm surprised it's even a thing.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's a thing because gw never intended infantry and MCs to be in units. One of the big faqs of 6th (and subsequent change in 7th) was that you couldn't join characters to MCs or vice versa. Iirc it was the tau riptide character joining a battlesuit and another riptide or something along those lines.

 

But FW does their own thing and didn't put a provision in about grenades (they do have caveats for the dominus and such joining automata and allocation, but not for the praevian).

[Slips]

Its basically broken down as such:

 

• Praevian and MCs [Player 1] are in combat with another unit say, 10 man strong [Player 2]
• Praevian is in b2b with 4, MCs are in b2b with 6
• Player 2 declares they'll be using melta bombs/krak grenades on the MC unit
• 4 of the grenade attacks can only be allocated to the Praevian who is Infantry and can therefore not be attacked by Grenades in CC; due to the attack already having been declared, those 4 attacks go poof
• 6 of the remaining grenade attacks are allocated and resolved as normal due to them being allocated to MCs.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Slips has the core of it.

 

Keep in mind that any who are in based to base with both unit types can be allocated to the infantry, as well as any who aren't in base to base and closer to the praevian. A good formation is a triangle/diamond with the praevian at the tip and a bit of space between him and the bots.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

In regards to the OP, what we know so far:

 

1. Master of the Armoury guy  -  is supposed to grant master-crafted to Heavy Support squads armed with Heavy Bolters or Volkites. Sounds really nice.

2. Warmonger  -  supposed to grant himself and one unit he joins the DS USR. No information if he is Master of the Legion as well. I find this one to be hilariously OP even now.

3. 'That Dreadnought Praevian'  - Master of the Ancients or something like that. No information on how he's supposed to work, but we'll see. Generally, I think the concept might be a bit superfluous.

4. Specialised Librarians  -  As the rumours go, one for traitors, one for Loyalists. I could well imagine they get a specific unique Discipline each in addition to the basic psychic disciplines, or they might get specialised access to Sanctic / Malefic Daemonology maybe (Like not triggering Perils on any double but on boxcars only.) ? Or something along those lines.

 

EDTI:  early mornin' typo

[Gorgoff]

That is really a crazy rule glitch and should be treated as such.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

That is really a crazy rule glitch and should be treated as such.

Yeah, but we all know one or more 'That Guys'  ... don't we now.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

That is really a crazy rule glitch and should be treated as such.

Yeah, but we all know one or more 'That Guys' ... don't we now.

Of course.

But fortunately none of these play heresy in my area. Whenever those people showed interest in the game we start bitching about the 'prizes being to damn high' and 'the rules are to damn clunky' and all the other stuff you can find on the internet.

That kept them away without the necessity to be rude. ;)

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Excellent tactics indeed !  

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

That is really a crazy rule glitch and should be treated as such.

Yeah, but we all know one or more 'That Guys' ... don't we now.

I'm just going to go ahead and answer you both from this quote.

 

The mechanic is clunky and not intended for sure. But it also doesn't make sense for a model who is immune and too nimble to have Grenades and bombs strapped to it, to suddenly be extremely susceptible to those very same weapons.

 

This isn't creative reading of the rules, it's just plain reading them; I guess for some it makes me "that guy". At the end of the day it's positioning; if someone has their IC at the front of a blob and their opponent gets a cheeky rear charge to deny the attacks, should the first guy get to complain about "that guy" and demand the ability to attack?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

The mechanic is clunky and not intended for sure. 

 

It is. And yes, most certainly not.

This isn't creative reading of the rules, it's just plain reading them;

 

Which is totally okay. RAW is fine, if it makes sense and can be applied in a situation.

 

I guess for some it makes me "that guy".

 

Nope, and I didn't point a finger nor said you were. 

 

But, in regards to clunky rules, odd wordings and weird formulations, I am pretty sure most of us have run into the sort of player before who try to 'interpret' rules their way or read between the lines when there's nothing there. Those people are 'that guys' to me.

 

At the end of the day it's positioning; if someone has their IC at the front of a blob and their opponent gets a cheeky rear charge to deny the attacks, should the first guy get to complain about "that guy" and demand the ability to attack?

 

Totally fine. When someone fields a blob that huge so their own ICs can't comfortably make way any more (outside of a challenge) or maneouver themselves into a position to get rear charged, then they've only got themselves to blame.

 

[StruManChu]

(snip) But it also doesn't make sense for a model who is immune and too nimble to have Grenades and bombs strapped to it, to suddenly be extremely susceptible to those very same weapons. (snip)

 

By that logic, is he nimble enough to not only get himself out of the way, but also to grab the 5-10 incoming grenades or bombs and throw them away from his Cybernetica pals, or to get both himself and them out of the way using the Cortex Controller? I mean, it's possible that there's a justification saying that by having a more hands-on controller their performance is improved and they're more reactive, but otherwise, then you house rule it to say that anyone not in B2B with the Praevian gets to attack the Robots as normal until it gets FAQ'ed, which will be sometime in 2027, because otherwise it's both broken AND stupid. 

 

Edit - Admittedly we don't know how the new Dread-Praevian is going to work, but surely you'd have the same issue there, if he ends up working the same way? I can't imagine them not coming up with a fix for that.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well as I originally said, I hope they fix it. But it's a perfectly fine interaction by mechanical standards and doesn't lead to anything other than one gotcha moment and then proper counterplay afterwards. It's not like praevians, especially vorax ones are good to start with. And hey, if you tell your opponent about it beforehand then they can go into combat prepared.

 

And no, nothing is going towards his bots that gets allocated to him. The order of wound allocation is backwards in general, but your assertion that he's intercepting the bombs would only be true if you look out sir'd the grenade attacks from the bots to the infantry.