JJD Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Scouts are 4PL and tactical and intercessor are both 5PL so with the extra special rules you would have to assume they would be towards the top end of that points range. Scouts might be getting edged out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I think scouts have a place as cheap meatshields if these units are on the slightly pricier end, just depends how many points you want to throw at the unit rather than spend elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 They have the same stats at intercessor’s with extra rules on top you have to assume they will be a point or two more per model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhavoc Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Well the message is out in Warhammer Community and the title of the mini-codex is “Adeptus Astartes: Vanguard Space Marines”. Can we even take them as DA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isual Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Well the message is out in Warhammer Community and the title of the mini-codex is “Adeptus Astartes: Vanguard Space Marines”. Can we even take them as DA? They have the blanc <chapter> keyword, so there is still hope ;). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmor Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Overall the release is OK, but... I don't know, the units are interesting, the models are OK (except for autocannon guys), but these guys are definitely not from my DA army. Black Knights, Company Veterans, Deathwing Knights, Company Champion, Master from Dark Vengeance... and these more "generic Sci-Fi Marines" just don't fit into the theme. Maybe as a new project, side army of "New Vanguard Space Marines Chapter", but not DA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxB Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Model-wise I'm a bit 'meh' on this release. Very tech looking marines which is cool but steps away from the gothic grim dark look that I like and that DA epitomise. Rules look pretty cool for the Infiltrator marines - setting up like scouts but also pushing opponent deepstrikers back 12". Great screening potential. Price will be the clincher though. Same with the jumpy-autocannon guys - priced right this could be an alternate for the Azrael castle. Has anyone seen stats on their guns? This is all assuming DA can actually take these units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Model-wise I'm a bit 'meh' on this release. Very tech looking marines which is cool but steps away from the gothic grim dark look that I like and that DA epitomise. Rules look pretty cool for the Infiltrator marines - setting up like scouts but also pushing opponent deepstrikers back 12". Great screening potential. Price will be the clincher though. Same with the jumpy-autocannon guys - priced right this could be an alternate for the Azrael castle. Has anyone seen stats on their guns? This is all assuming DA can actually take these units. I think the Infiltrators will topple the Scouts for competitive games if they are 17 - 18 pts per model. All the rules for scouts with the Primaris stat line AND a 12" no deepstrike bubble with auto wounding bolters on Hit rolls of 6? yes please. Not to mention their bolters are rapid fire so take advantage of the beta bolter rules. The Accelerator Autocannons on the Suppressors are 48" Heavy 2, S7 -2 D2. It's a pitty they are only a max unit of 3. Don't think I'll be buying any anytime soon. I'll be interested to see how these compare points wise to a Rifleman Ven Dread. The Exterminators are intriguing me the more I read their rules. Again the max 3 in a unit is disappointing but the 3 different ammo types on their sniper rifles makes them so versatile. As long as they are no more than 20pts per model it would be worth taking 3 units of 3 to sit out of LOS an snipe weak characters or kill easy units for ITC Kill a unit points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skorp Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I'm curious how the infiltrators will compare point wise to taking a phobos lt. with regular scouts. I'm very intrigued by the heroes in phobos getting to scout move. What a librarian with righteous repugnance could do up in their face turn one with a warlord with master of manoevre is dirty. Just overall the ability to almost deep strike first turn and be in their face. Makes sense why the capt and lt dont have power weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Th artwork had me thinking the Suppressor Squad simply had grav chutes, which would be suitable, but they have jump packs instead. I guess 48" range weapons need to be able to be moved around a lot to get in range, and so as to impose a -1 penalty to hit. Now, if those accelerator autocannons were somewhat shorter ranged ***Assault*** weapons, this would actually not be a needless combination. Makes me look forward to the release of a dedicated Primaris close combat unit which will have the Pondorous rule and be armed with combat knife (because Primaris' Str 4 AP 0 attack options are sadly lacking :/). That this stuff bears The Mark of Guilliman at least irrefutably confirms who is the better tactician between him and The Lion. I like all of the models/unit entries well enough, except for the Suppressors. Exterminators will likely put the final nail in the coffin of Scout Snipers. Better armor, more Wounds, and a better gun. They will likely cost about 30 points, but they will be worth it (and the models do look very cool). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5268991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Raziel Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 One other interesting thing about the Exterminators is that they are a Heavy Support choice. Assuming they are in the range of 50-60pts for a unit, we now have a relatively cheap Heavy Support choice to help us fill out Brigades. One we won't feel too bad about spending the points on too.The Suppressors are interesting, but they don't have a good unit to suppress for. Also, they make me wonder why there wasn't at least one Ultramarines officer who could say to Guilliman, "Hey boss, wouldn't it make more sense to give the accelerator autocannons to the Hellblasters and the plasma incinerators to the Suppressors?"I suppose being able to take a unit of 10 Hellblasters with accelerator autocannons would be ridiculous, but they could limit them to units of 5. And would they be more ridiculous than a Castellan? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTriton Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Boy do I love the infiltrator, I expect them to be 16-17 PPM, same stats as the intecessor with worst weapon and some utility ability. GW undervalues anything that is not raw power, and I expect infiltrator to be agressivly pointed to both sell the models and help the faction. Eliminator are super nice, filling both the no-Los and sniper niche at the same time for an expected 19-22 PPM. and they look so good! Suppressor... they do not bring much to DA, maybe BA and SW will have more of a use for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Overall the release is OK, but... I don't know, the units are interesting, the models are OK (except for autocannon guys), but these guys are definitely not from my DA army. Black Knights, Company Veterans, Deathwing Knights, Company Champion, Master from Dark Vengeance... and these more "generic Sci-Fi Marines" just don't fit into the theme. Maybe as a new project, side army of "New Vanguard Space Marines Chapter", but not DA. I feel much the same. They just don't feel very dark angel. Maybe they will grow in me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Maybe I just need to see some in robes. Come on GW give me robes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 One other interesting thing about the Exterminators is that they are a Heavy Support choice. Assuming they are in the range of 50-60pts for a unit, we now have a relatively cheap Heavy Support choice to help us fill out Brigades. One we won't feel too bad about spending the points on too. The Suppressors are interesting, but they don't have a good unit to suppress for. Also, they make me wonder why there wasn't at least one Ultramarines officer who could say to Guilliman, "Hey boss, wouldn't it make more sense to give the accelerator autocannons to the Hellblasters and the plasma incinerators to the Suppressors?" I suppose being able to take a unit of 10 Hellblasters with accelerator autocannons would be ridiculous, but they could limit them to units of 5. And would they be more ridiculous than a Castellan? Sorry to multiple post but the thing with the hellblasters made me spit out my drink. That is spot on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 It doesn't look like the supressors have jump packs. Their 12" move comes from their trampoline shoes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 All I can think is that the multipart kit either allows them to be built without jump pack to save points or there is another weapon that makes more sense. Hopefully both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G8Keeper Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Let's take a minute to appreciate how we can now cast Mind Wipe with a psyker equipped with Eye of the Unseen and the new power (separate new psyker) that's also -1 Ld for a total of -3. Then we can cast Trephination with Empyric Channeling just to make sure and potentially take 5 wounds off an enemy character. More shenanigans could be had with Reivers and Asmodai. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Let's take a minute to appreciate how we can now cast Mind Wipe with a psyker equipped with Eye of the Unseen and the new power (separate new psyker) that's also -1 Ld for a total of -3. Then we can cast Trephination with Empyric Channeling just to make sure and potentially take 5 wounds off an enemy character. More shenanigans could be had with Reivers and Asmodai. And people said Night Lords are the kings of Leadership shenanigans :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5269877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 There was some debate earlier about if we were getting these units. Given a colour scheme for a Dark Angels Vanguard was in the recent article ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/05/mar-5-shadowspear-focus-vanguard-unitsgw-homepage-post-4/ ), along with Space Wolves and Blood Angels, I think it’s safe at this point to assume we’ll be able to use them. Love the look of the Librarian, wonder if DA equivalents will get Inner Circle keyword like the other Primaris Librarians? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5270943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 There was some debate earlier about if we were getting these units. Given a colour scheme for a Dark Angels Vanguard was in the recent article ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/05/mar-5-shadowspear-focus-vanguard-unitsgw-homepage-post-4/ ), along with Space Wolves and Blood Angels, I think it’s safe at this point to assume we’ll be able to use them. Love the look of the Librarian, wonder if DA equivalents will get Inner Circle keyword like the other Primaris Librarians? There will most likely be a page at the front of the Vigilus Vanguard Marines mini codex in Shadowspear that will say these units can be used with Dark Angels, Clood Angels, Space Wolves etc. Just like when the Repulsor, Primaris Chaplain, Primaris Apothecary came out and no one but Space Marines had codex's. It would be silly to exclude all marine armies as they will lose a lot of money. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5271358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsWithLegs Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 In the article on WHC about the vanguard forces they show off a warlord trait that lets you pick a friendly and enemy unit and the friendly unit adds 1 to attacks against the enemy unit. Hopefully we get this stuff, I really want that for my hellblasters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5271940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isual Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 In the article on WHC about the vanguard forces they show off a warlord trait that lets you pick a friendly and enemy unit and the friendly unit adds 1 to attacks against the enemy unit. Hopefully we get this stuff, I really want that for my hellblasters That would be awsome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5271950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Raziel Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 When I first saw the Librarian, I thought it was Primaris Ezekial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5272117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 In the article on WHC about the vanguard forces they show off a warlord trait that lets you pick a friendly and enemy unit and the friendly unit adds 1 to attacks against the enemy unit. Hopefully we get this stuff, I really want that for my hellblasters Well according to the second to last paragraph in the WHC article we will be. What’s more, all of these new units can join armies hailing from any of the First Founding or successor Chapters, so you’ll soon be able to add these powerful new weapons to your arsenal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354125-shadowspear-and-dark-angels/page/2/#findComment-5272144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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