Unconventional (for me)

[Frostglaive]

There are certain units from our codex that I have just never used since 8th edition came out. Partially because I don't own some, the others I heard were either just terrible or not as good as something else. Lately though, I've been thinking about changing my lists up some. Wanting to try out different ideas. Which also means I want to try out some of those other units too.

 

The units I simply do not own are the Corpuscarii and the Ironstriders (both auto and las variants).

The ones I keep hearing are just plain horrible are the Ruststalkers and the Dragoons w/ Jezzails.

 

I want to try out all of them.

 

The Ironstriders, from what I have seen at least, seem like good units. Cheap heavy weapon platforms. The fact that cognis weapons can also fire after advancing (granted at -2 BS) is also pretty good, and that can be adjusted with the Protector Doctrina strat to bump that back up to 3+. So speedy heavy weapons. Plus the 5+ Overwatch strat for cognis weapons seems nice too. Situational, but not bad.

 

Corpuscarii... I feel like they'd be a good suicide deep strike unit for Lucius. Drop in a squad of 10 or a blob of 20, lay waste to a unit or two with massed fire, but probably get killed off pretty fast afterwards. I know some people have said using them as Mars with their strat is awesome too. But I don't necessarily want them just sitting in the backfield and possibly never using them. I'd rather have them up close and in range with their jazz hands.

 

Ruststalkers.... the most hated unit in our codex, at least judging by what everyone on these forums say.... Gonna be honest, I'm really tempted to just get 2 blobs of 10, Stygies strat move them up, then just have them run at the enemy as either a distraction carnifex and/or hopefully charge stuff and kill it under massed attacks. 

 

Dragoons with Radium Jezzails.... cheap snipers that are -1 to hit in shooting? -2 if running them as Stygies? And if they move you can just pop the BS strat to make them hit on 2+. I think they'd be decent against cheap enemy characters. Nothing game-changing unless you get lucky. But a unit of 3 at 129pts? Doesn't sound too bad in my opinion.

 

Just spouting off my thoughts on all this. Haven't used any of these guys yet, going to try a few games this weekend with them. Run some models as count-as units to test them out.

[Black Knight]

Corpuscarii are good with the Mars Stratagem but as you said it is hard to get them into position, mostly what I hear is to use infiltrators instead with the Mars Stratagem and you get to deepstrike them. To me the old Skitarii and Mars units overlap a lot but there are clear winners. Corpuscarii/Infiltrators with infiltrators being better and Fulgurite/Rustalkers with Fulgurite being superior.

 

Ironstriders are a good top up but with the price of our crab tanks being reduced I would take a tank over them any day unless I just didn't have the points. Dragoons and Jezzails oh my no just don't... Take some Arquebus's instead as they are a lot better.

 

I think our problem with sub par units is just a hangover from 7th when we were two codexs and now we just have overlapping units.

[DanPesci]

Corpuscarii are good with the Mars Stratagem but as you said it is hard to get them into position, mostly what I hear is to use infiltrators instead with the Mars Stratagem and you get to deepstrike them. To me the old Skitarii and Mars units overlap a lot but there are clear winners. Corpuscarii/Infiltrators with infiltrators being better and Fulgurite/Rustalkers with Fulgurite being superior.

 

Ironstriders are a good top up but with the price of our crab tanks being reduced I would take a tank over them any day unless I just didn't have the points. Dragoons and Jezzails oh my no just don't... Take some Arquebus's instead as they are a lot better.

 

I think our problem with sub par units is just a hangover from 7th when we were two codexs and now we just have overlapping units.

 

Spot on

 

Fulgurites beat rusttalkers  for a CC mortal wound unit (especially if you get that 3++ off), and infiltrators are better for dropping in when needed later in the game.

 

All 3 onager varieties for me hands down beat ironstriders for anti vehicle/elites (and can take stubbers to fill anti infantry) 

 

Areqbus beat jezzails (especially after last chapter approved points drops on the arqebus)

 

 

The rusttalker issue really annoys me as they are my favourite model in our dex. The reduction in points helped slightly but at 10 points more a unit...ill just take infiltrators every time as they can actually drop in where needed and score objectives.

 

I do see the merit maybe in running them as a distraction carnifex...but for that to work they need to take some punishment...and ruststalkers tend to fall down to a stiff breeze..at ld 7, squads of 10 will really suffer for morale too once you lose 4-5....(especially as your removing 2 wound models each time)

 

 

However, let us know how the games go and good luck! Always good to see folk willing to run non top-tier lists just to try units out/have a bit of fun

[Spinsanity]

I think our problem with sub par units is just a hangover from 7th when we were two codexs and now we just have overlapping units.

These are all Skitarii ‘dex units, how can the overlap be the result of the 7th ed split?

[synthaside]

A 10 man Blob of corpiscarii  or even just a 5 man to fill out the elite slot for cheap can work wonders provided you are Metallica their limited range is massively improved by being able to advance and shoot without the penalty , however  this unit is an example of bad / rushed writing in our codex , also known as we got our index reprinted .

The unit would be excellent if the range was say 16 or 18 but at 12 they are a tough sell ,  their weapons are assault to try an counter this however they rely on a taser mechanic ( an ad mech concept  i love )  but as soon as they advance ... you cant possibly roll a 6 +   as its a not a natural roll of a 6  ... 

To boot our  stratagem to add +1 / +2  to hit and do me is  SKITARII only  and these are Cult Mech. ( Another oversight  or probably a layover from the separate books of 7th )
So many many people forget this and its annoying ... I've actually had people come up and ask me why i'm not using it .

 

Ironstriders  are another story entirely ... these units are amazing in both auto-cannon and Las cannon variety ... there major issue is that they share a slot and model with our all mighty dragoon which is arguably the best unit in our book , and point to £ ratio this unit hits you in the wallet as hard as it does on the field but its very very hard to argue with mobile tank buster unit I find them best as a unit of 2 or 3 . In addition  the ability to turn one reach out and kill a backfield unit on end to end deployment  when your opponent thinks its out of range can be hilarious .  Pop the stratagem  and the unit hits on 1's  before minus's ...  its like it was tailor made to kill horrible eldar fliers ... sorry what -3 / to hit ? alright  cool So i'm 3's  re-rolling 1s 

* laughs in binary *

As for the Jezzail  dragoon ... this weapon just seems like its not worth it ... if the unit packed a Movable Transuranic Arq for the same points .... i'd consider one , but at range 30 heavy 2 strength 5  0 AP No thank you  , If they made them rapid fire  as a harassing unit i could maybe see it but  
 

[Frostglaive]

I won't have any games until Saturday, so it'll be a hot minute before I can even test any of this stuff out. 

 

Corpuscarii and Ironstriders, I don't think I really need to speak in defense of. For what they do, at least on paper and from what batreps I have seen, they do a good job. Ruststalkers and Dragoons w/ Jezzails, I am still going to try out when I get the chance. Here's my (most likely weak) defense in favor of at least giving them a chance:

 

Ruststalkers... yes, Fulgurites are stronger. Higher damage output, better invul, and a FnP. HOWEVER... Ruststalkers are cheaper. They're faster. And they have more attacks. And you're not really hurting all that much if they get wiped off the table because of how cheap they are. While if you lose a squad of Fulgurites, that's gonna sting a lot more because of their power. Like I said originally, I think they'd be a good distraction carnifex. Squad of 10 of them, Stygies scout move them turn 1, and possibly get a Turn 1 charge off. Either kill some chaff, or even just lock some stuff up in combat just so they can't shoot next turn (depending what army you fight that is...). Force your opponent to decide whether to deal with your guns in the back, or the raving lunatics that are right in their face.

 

Dragoons w/ Jezzails... I do agree the gun is rather lacking. Str 5 is still pretty good against most characters, but the lack of AP and only D1 does hurt. That being said, it's cheaper than a 5-man Ranger squad w/ arquebus rifles. It's more durable, it has a natural -1 to hit (plus another -1 if you play stygies). And it's mobile. Very mobile. And it can target characters. Think about this: You're fighting Guard or Marines, your arquebus rifles can't shoot their commander or LT because they hid themselves from that angle. You can't move them or they can't shoot... but a unit of Dragoons could reach them. Move off to the other side, pop the +2 BS strat (thank you data-tether), and now you have a fair number of shots against said commander or Lt. Will it kill it? Maybe not. But it'll threaten it at the very least, damage or possibly kill it at the most. 

 

My biggest points here are really just more mobility. In a game where some armies can outmaneuver us and get out of range of our big guns, it'd be nice to have something to counter that.

[synthaside]

You see that's basically what i do with 2 squads of infiltrators , 2nd turn they drop in to the flanks and shoot then charge at any openings  ,  this works better as a sneak unit .

in 2 days time as a sniper any imperium keyword army will for 85 points and 1 cp be able to  take a Vindicare assassin , he hits on 2's wounds on 2's and ignores inv saves doing d3 damage with the chance of more mortal wounds on a 3+ ..

[Frostglaive]

I'll be doing the same thing. I have 3 Vindicares sitting in a case waiting to see the light of day again

[Black Knight]

 

I think our problem with sub par units is just a hangover from 7th when we were two codexs and now we just have overlapping units.

These are all Skitarii ‘dex units, how can the overlap be the result of the 7th ed split?

 

 

Corpuscarii and Fulgurites were Mechanicus units not Skitarii, that's the overlap.

 

With regard to the Dragoons you are paying for a mobile unit that is pretty much a dud. That mobility is covered with an Arqubuses range, the Arquebus has a lot more punch. If the character you want hides behind a building you simply target another unit which the Arqubus can pretty much hit, even fliers! 

 

I understand your idea of getting the better angle but if you are that close to step to the side of a building you are close enough to charge with A GIANT FORK WITH A DURACELL BATTERY! I really do not know what they are trying to do with the Jezzail but I would say that variant is the worst unit we have, even below Rustalkers.

 

Rustalkers are cheap and thats all they are, the deepstrike for Infiltators is so much more valuable, as you said you like mobility. I really would like them to be heavier armour allowing them to run up the field.

[Vel'Cona]

As ever, I feel the need to bring up the fact that most of these units would benefit immensely from cost-effective and readily accessible transport, a la Rhinos or Chimeras.  Deep Striking it fine and dandy but it's recently been heavily nerfed by GW's march to balance the competitive 40k tables, and unfortunately for AdMech that leaves our footsloggers (Ruststalkers, Electropriests in general, and even Vanguard) in the same situation they've ever dealt with: fragile, not fast enough to engage rapidly and too expensive to horde up (a la Orks).  Since we already saw massive point drops overall in last year's CA, my only hope for such units at this point is a new codex or representation from FW in this area.

 

I know some folks will bring up the Termite in this conversation, but I'd like to preface that argument with the aforementioned "cost effective" requirement :P