Rules Clarification: Indominus Crusader & Strike from the Sh

[DeadPlayerOne]

In the advent of the incoming “Shadowspear reinforcement”, I am going to put my Raptors primaris marines only infantry force of back to active duty. In this context, I would like to clarify some rules questions related to Indominus Crusader Detachment (and the related stratagems) and Strike from the Shadows. I assume that my rules interpretations are correct, which would be unfortunate because it would make both rather limited as tactical tools in my army.

 

 

Indominus Crusader Detachment: The way understood is that in order to use the three intercessor related stratagems (bolt storm; rapid fire, target sighted) I have to:

1^st pay one CP to give the “Indominus Crusader” keyword to ALL intercessors in the detachment

2^nd pay one additional CP to give the “veteran intercessor” keyword (but here come the catch) to only ONE SPECIFC intercessors

3^rd pay the required CP for the stratagems that can only be used by Indominus Crusade intercessor with the extra veteran upgrade.

 

The intercessor stratagems look sweet and I can see myself including two to three 10-man intercessor squads to make full use of them. However, if my interpretation is correct it means I have to pay two CP just to gain a single unit the is eligible to use them. For three squads it would be four (!) CP. On top of that, my opponent will know exactly which intercessors should be focused down.

 

 

Strike from the Shadows: I really liked the original stratagem before the Alpha Legion ruined it for everybody (although I always wanted to infiltrate 3*40 cultist + apostle/chaos lord myself . In the current wording, I see it like this:

During deployment, I pay one CP to gif SftS to a specific unit (as in the original version) BUT I set it up on the board as usual. After it is determined who goes first, I can make the additional 9’’ move. For a cultist blob this might be useful. For an army of somewhat elite infiltration specialists it is rather unfluffy and the tactical use is limited… I am basically paying one CP to tell my enemy my battle plans.

SftS, could be somewhat useful if I had the option to payed the CP AFTER deployment is done. However, this is not how I would interpret the current rules.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Panzer]

In the advent of the incoming “Shadowspear reinforcement”, I am going to put my Raptors primaris marines only infantry force of back to active duty. In this context, I would like to clarify some rules questions related to Indominus Crusader Detachment (and the related stratagems) and Strike from the Shadows. I assume that my rules interpretations are correct, which would be unfortunate because it would make both rather limited as tactical tools in my army.

 

 

Indominus Crusader Detachment: The way understood is that in order to use the three intercessor related stratagems (bolt storm; rapid fire, target sighted) I have to:

1^st pay one CP to give the “Indominus Crusader” keyword to ALL intercessors in the detachment

2^nd pay one additional CP to give the “veteran intercessor” keyword (but here come the catch) to only ONE SPECIFC intercessors

3^rd pay the required CP for the stratagems that can only be used by Indominus Crusade intercessor with the extra veteran upgrade.

 

The intercessor stratagems look sweet and I can see myself including two to three 10-man intercessor squads to make full use of them. However, if my interpretation is correct it means I have to pay two CP just to gain a single unit the is eligible to use them. For three squads it would be four (!) CP. On top of that, my opponent will know exactly which intercessors should be focused down.

Exactly. The only reason why the detachment isn't more popular.

 

Strike from the Shadows: I really liked the original stratagem before the Alpha Legion ruined it for everybody (although I always wanted to infiltrate 3*40 cultist + apostle/chaos lord myself . In the current wording, I see it like this:

During deployment, I pay one CP to gif SftS to a specific unit (as in the original version) BUT I set it up on the board as usual. After it is determined who goes first, I can make the additional 9’’ move. For a cultist blob this might be useful. For an army of somewhat elite infiltration specialists it is rather unfluffy and the tactical use is limited… I am basically paying one CP to tell my enemy my battle plans.

SftS, could be somewhat useful if I had the option to payed the CP AFTER deployment is done. However, this is not how I would interpret the current rules.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

Not sure on this one. Blood Angels can decide to give their Deathcompany the extra movement after deployment (but before the seize attempt) and that's basically the same kind of scout movement.

[thewarriorhunter]

For SftS you are correct, and it's something I plan on writing to GW about to change. Since we have to deploy and then move I would like to have the option to do it, not declare it when I deploy. As it stands right now you may say you're going to do it, then get seized on, and now you don't want to do it because you'll be out of position for a turn.

 

Also if you're going to run Raptors come on over to the Raven Guard sub-forum and say high. We've got several Raptors players there that can give advice.

[DeadPlayerOne]

Seems like I understood the rules correctly. Hard to imagine that someone uses the Indominus Crusaders in a pure Space Marine list. It requires two CP before you can even use it...

[Panzer]

Seems like I understood the rules correctly. Hard to imagine that someone uses the Indominus Crusaders in a pure Space Marine list. IT requires so kann CP before you can even use it...

 

If you want to read more about Indomitus Crusaders, it got tested a bit by several people in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352308-indomitus-crusaders/

[Lemondish]

Seems like I understood the rules correctly. Hard to imagine that someone uses the Indominus Crusaders in a pure Space Marine list. IT requires so kann CP before you can even use it...

Not much else in a pure Space Marine list to spend CP on.

[DeadPlayerOne]

Thank you for the reply and the linked thread. Maybe I will test Indominus Crusaders on one Intercessor Squad. My worries are that this will mark them as primary target. However, infiltrating Vanguard Primaris Marines and the other new kids on the block might proof as a good distraction. In combination with Bolter Discipline and Raven Guard chapter tactics the Intercessors might survie long enough.

[Lemondish]

Thank you for the reply and the linked thread. Maybe I will test Indominus Crusaders on one Intercessor Squad. My worries are that this will mark them as primary target. However, infiltrating Vanguard Primaris Marines and the other new kids on the block might proof as a good distraction. In combination with Bolter Discipline and Raven Guard chapter tactics the Intercessors might survie long enough.

Do you run a Repulsor often?

 

Also keep in mind that there's value in your opponent overextending to kill a single troop squad.

[Mirthless]

Well... question.. isnt the making a unit Veteran a Pre game decision? I.e. you can do it more then once? So technically you can being 3*10 intercessors with rapid fire guns and then only use the rapid fire strategem once every shooting.

 

Am I correct?

[Panzer]

Well... question.. isnt the making a unit Veteran a Pre game decision? I.e. you can do it more then once? So technically you can being 3*10 intercessors with rapid fire guns and then only use the rapid fire strategem once every shooting.

 

Am I correct?

 

Yes that's correct. However not very practical as you already need to pay 1CP for the detachment itself and the real value of the Veteran squads is getting access to the Bolter Stratagems which cost 1CP per use as well. So to get the minimum benefit of a Veteran squad you are already looking at 3CP + 2CP for each additional Veteran squad.

[DeadPlayerOne]

For SftS you are correct, and it's something I plan on writing to GW about to change. Since we have to deploy and then move I would like to have the option to do it, not declare it when I deploy. As it stands right now you may say you're going to do it, then get seized on, and now you don't want to do it because you'll be out of position for a turn.

 

Also if you're going to run Raptors come on over to the Raven Guard sub-forum and say high. We've got several Raptors players there that can give advice.

 

StftS might get interesting (even in its current form) for the new Primaris Vanguards. You could declare StftS on them (spend 1CP), set them up somewhere on the board via infiltration and then move them 9'' into a nice position in the enemies deployment zone or midfield cover. If only Reivers had the same infiltration deployment mechanics...

 

 

Thank you for the reply and the linked thread. Maybe I will test Indominus Crusaders on one Intercessor Squad. My worries are that this will mark them as primary target. However, infiltrating Vanguard Primaris Marines and the other new kids on the block might proof as a good distraction. In combination with Bolter Discipline and Raven Guard chapter tactics the Intercessors might survie long enough.

Do you run a Repulsor often?

 

Also keep in mind that there's value in your opponent overextending to kill a single troop squad.

 

 

 

Transports might help in terms of protection and delivery. But for practical and fluff reasons I play my raptors as infiltrator: Primaris only with the exception of scouts (because I find normal marines just look too tiny next to them) AND infantry (as a commitment to me wallet, because I have several other armies). I know that this might limit my capabilities but luckily, GW got me covered with new Primaris models to spend my cash on.

 

 

Well... question.. isnt the making a unit Veteran a Pre game decision? I.e. you can do it more then once? So technically you can being 3*10 intercessors with rapid fire guns and then only use the rapid fire strategem once every shooting.

 

Am I correct?

 

At the beginning I was imagining a list with 3 squads of Intercessors, each with a different armament (rifle, auto, stalker). Depending on how the battle goes I could choose one of the three stratagems. Paying 1CP pre-game (as I was originally thinking) would have been okay for me. However, I have to pay 4 CP pre-game before even getting to the point where I could actually spend CP to activate the stratagem.