Vanguard Primaris and BA

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So, now we have Jump Packs in heavy support also. All we need is a jump packed troop choice and we're golden!

 

With this release focussed around the sneaky sneaky, do you think we'll see separate Primaris releases dealing with Hellblaster Chamber and Inceptor Chamber?

 

I'd really like a Inceptor captain. 

I have ten reivers I am yet to put together...anyone think there could be conversion opportunities for these into the new scout type troops?  I have deliberately left them alone to see what happens with them moving forwards..

 

Stick intercessor boltgun arms onto the reiver bodies? Works for me. 

Isn't there a Gravis Pattern Inceptor Captain in Dark Imperium by Guy Haley?

[Karhedron]

Some interesting units although nothing leaps out as must-haves.

 

The Suppressors looked interesting but on paper look to be hampered by the fixed squad size and the fact that their weapons are Heavy rather than Assault. Suppressive fire might come in handy from time to time, particularly if you want to charge hordes.

 

Infiltrators will depend on price. They look a viable alternative to Intercessors if you want a unit to get up close to the enemy and cause disruption. The problem is that their abilities look a bit situational. Also, it looks like you can only take a Helix Adept if you take a full 10-man squad which will limit their usefulness somewhat. I was initially taken with the idea of MSU Primaris squads with a built-in mini-medic but this looks like it is no an option. Auto-wounding on a 6+ to Hit is nice but bring us less benefit than similar abilities (like Necron Tesla) as we don't have any way to apply a fixed +1 to-Hit which would definitely make the ability worth taking.

 

Eliminators are better snipers but look to be Heavy rather than Troops so i don't know if they will be worth it.

 

Captain and Lt look meh and the Librarian will depend on their new discipline.

 

Overall, I am a bit underwhelmed. They add some interesting capabilities to a pure-Primaris army but if you are already running mixed-marines, I don't see huge potential.

[Xenith]

Some interesting units although nothing leaps out as must-haves.

 

The Suppressors looked interesting but on paper look to be hampered by the fixed squad size and the fact that their weapons are Heavy rather than Assault. Suppressive fire might come in handy from time to time, particularly if you want to charge hordes.

 

Bear in mind that the datasheets we've seen are all for the fixed loadout units in the Shadowspear box. Like the CSM squad with no weapon options. 

 

I'd expect them to be the non-codex 3 - 6 that Aggressors and Inceptors are. 

[redshadow]

I’ll be getting the box, using upon wings of fire on a 6 man unit of plasma inceptors to move the next to the captain and lieutenant seems nasty or even bolter inceptors to kill a lot of chaff

 

Maybe the librarian will have some sort of gate power to move hellblasters into a nice position

[Karhedron]

• Librarian. 100% depends on the psychic powers. As is there's not really a reason to take him over a regular Primaris Librarian (or a Librarian Dreadnought in my case ).

And here's the money shot.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/C1ruCO3

 

Looking at those powers I am pleasantly surprised and I think there is a lot to like and the casting powers look reasonable too so we have a decent chance of pulling them off when we need them.

 

The big issue is that the 3 buffing powers only work on PHOBOS units. Clearly GW doesn't want our SG becoming immune to long-ranged fire or our Devatators rerolling all misses. Whilst disappointing, this does show an intelligent use of Keywords and indicates that GW don't want to repeat past mistakes of making powers that stack in unintended ways.

 

The 3 offensive powers are decent. Each one offers a mortal wound and a chance to debuff and enemy unit. Mind Raid in particular offers a reliable way to put a MW on an enemy character and snag a CP while you are at it.

[keeblerartillery]

Temporal corridor seems like a great way to get reivers into combat turn one! You could really overwhelm an opponent with reivers, infiltrators, scouts, a Libby dread, slam CPT and UWoF’d jump units all charging on turn one. Add some suppressors and suddenly a whole lot less overwatch. I might be buying this now...

[Panzer]

 

• Librarian. 100% depends on the psychic powers. As is there's not really a reason to take him over a regular Primaris Librarian (or a Librarian Dreadnought in my case ).

And here's the money shot.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/C1ruCO3

 

Looking at those powers I am pleasantly surprised and I think there is a lot to like and the casting powers look reasonable too so we have a decent chance of pulling them off when we need them.

 

The big issue is that the 3 buffing powers only work on PHOBOS units. Clearly GW doesn't want our SG becoming immune to long-ranged fire or our Devatators rerolling all misses. Whilst disappointing, this does show an intelligent use of Keywords and indicates that GW don't want to repeat past mistakes of making powers that stack in unintended ways.

 

The 3 offensive powers are decent. Each one offers a mortal wound and a chance to debuff and enemy unit. Mind Raid in particular offers a reliable way to put a MW on an enemy character and snag a CP while you are at it.

 

 

Already saw and commented on them in the NRA thread. ;)

Temporal corridor seems like a great way to get reivers into combat turn one! 

 

Not really since Reivers can't charge after advancing. It's purely a utility power. Not to mention that Reivers don't have the Phobos keyword unless GW erratas it in.

[Karhedron]

Temporal corridor seems like a great way to get reivers into combat turn one! You could really overwhelm an opponent with reivers, infiltrators, scouts, a Libby dread, slam CPT and UWoF’d jump units all charging on turn one. Add some suppressors and suddenly a whole lot less overwatch. I might be buying this now...

Reivers don't have the Phobos keyword so cannot be targeted by this power. The 3 buffing powers literally only affect Vanguard units which seriously limits their effectiveness even though I can understand why they did it that way.

[keeblerartillery]

I guess I made a few assumptions. One, that reivers will clearly have the Phobos keyword added. Two, that the power says for them to move “as if” it is their movement phase - this is a psychic move, not an actual move. I presume they will still be able to charge, similar to wings of sanguinius. Either way, still some neat tricks.

[BrotherAetherick]

You still advanced in moving "as if" it were the movement phase. So they can't charge.

You can advance with your wings move as well, you just won't be able to charge. But the phobos librarian power forces you to advance.

[Panzer]

So while this is mostly about Phobos armour, they used the Infiltrator as example.

 

How are you going to paint your Infiltrators? Other chapters can just go with black easily but for us black armour has special meaning so it would be kinda weird to paint Infiltrators black as well. Are you just going with the regular red? Or something entirely else?

Since my main colour is silver/metal I was thinking about going with a light grey actually. Not very different to the rest of my guys but less 'reflecting'.

[Gingerninja]

Someone found the points for the different units yet?

[Panzer]

Someone found the points for the different units yet?

 

No but we know the PL values and know that 1PL roughly equals 15-20 points. ;)

[Gingerninja]

 

Someone found the points for the different units yet?

 

No but we know the PL values and know that 1PL roughly equals 15-20 points.

 

 

Ok, didnt know.

 

Thanks

[Charlo]

So the image that Panzer linked, combined with the other images in the article leads me to believe Infiltrators will be getting a larger armament than their bolt carbines in the full release.

 

Why would there be a blue helmet option (BA), devastator marking (DA/ UM) if they are just going to have the same loadout? Exciting times.

[Panzer]

So the image that Panzer linked, combined with the other images in the article leads me to believe Infiltrators will be getting a larger armament than their bolt carbines in the full release.

 

Why would there be a blue helmet option (BA), devastator marking (DA/ UM) if they are just going to have the same loadout? Exciting times.

The article is mainly talking about the Phobos armour there so a blue helmet could be explained by the Elminators. I think GW already confirmed on facebook that there will be a box with more options and that we can take a look at the two HQs to take a guess what it might be, however I doubt that it'll change their battlefield role.

[MadGreek]

The "art" doesn't always accurately reflect role either. All the Reivers on the GW website and on the box are sporting fast attack arrows on the right shoulder, but are elite in the organizational breakdown.

[Panzer]

The "art" doesn't always accurately reflect role either. All the Reivers on the GW website and on the box are sporting fast attack arrows on the right shoulder, but are elite in the organizational breakdown.

 

It's not "fast attack". It's "close support". The Codex Astartes battlefield roles translate only loosely to the FOC sections. One is fluff, the other is crunch.

[BrotherAetherick]

There's a new warlord trait for PHOBOS characters called master of the vanguard: "all friendly CHAPTER units within 6 add 1 to movement, charge and advance rolls"

This would let you descent of angels a group of sanguinary guard/vanguard vets and have a 8" reroll-able charge with your angel's wings captain as long as they deepstrike near your warlord. Making it on a Vanguard LT would let him deepstrike with them.

[lash144]

There's a new warlord trait for PHOBOS characters called master of the vanguard: "all friendly CHAPTER units within 6 add 1 to movement, charge and advance rolls"

This would let you descent of angels a group of sanguinary guard/vanguard vets and have a 8" reroll-able charge with your angel's wings captain as long as they deepstrike near your warlord. Making it on a Vanguard LT would let him deepstrike with them.

That's a really strong WLT. I was thinking to combine it which a huge block of Aggressors. With this trait they move an average of 10.5" lol.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

The "art" doesn't always accurately reflect role either. All the Reivers on the GW website and on the box are sporting fast attack arrows on the right shoulder, but are elite in the organizational breakdown.

 

It's not "fast attack". It's "close support". The Codex Astartes battlefield roles translate only loosely to the FOC sections. One is fluff, the other is crunch.

 

 

That said these loose roles have for the most part matched their FOC equivalent. So, for the most part close support units are mostly fast attack in game (unless they're elite).

 

With Vanguard we have the first instance of "Fire support" being "Fast attack" in the form of the Surpressors, which means they're not competing with devestators, hellblasters or the new Eliminators, they're competing with your Inceptors, Assault squads, or Land speeders. It's something to keep in mind.

[Jolemai]

Once the rules for these come out officially, I'll add them to the Unit of the Week rotation :tu:

[Karhedron]

Someone found the points for the different units yet?

Yup, just turned up on Dakka. No photos or anything for corroboration though so take with a pinch of salt until confirmed.

 

Captain 119

Librarian 111

Lieutenant 86

Inflitrators 22/32 for adept, which is compulsory in 10man unit

Suppressors 35 =105 for 3man

Eliminators 24 = 72 for 3man

They do look a tad expensive. Hopefully they will come down a bit just like the original Dark Imperium units did. If we could get those prices down 10-15%, they would start looking interesting.

 

Eliminators look better than Sniper Scouts for their points but are Heavy, not Troop which makes them less useful for a Battalion. I can see them being good to fill out a Brigade though.

[BluejayJunior]

So while this is mostly about Phobos armour, they used the Infiltrator as example.

 

 

How are you going to paint your Infiltrators? Other chapters can just go with black easily but for us black armour has special meaning so it would be kinda weird to paint Infiltrators black as well. Are you just going with the regular red? Or something entirely else?

Since my main colour is silver/metal I was thinking about going with a light grey actually. Not very different to the rest of my guys but less 'reflecting'.

I'm planning on painting my Vanguard units with a black helmet. For my chapter, I think the Vanguard forces will exist outside of the traditional chapter structure, like an 11th company. Other than that, they will match the red of the rest of my power armor. 

[Majkhel]

Bumping-up this thread as I recently encountered an interesting question regarding Vanguard Space Marines.

Vanguard mini-codex says that:
"... In accordance with those recent amendments of the Codex Astartes, the 10th Company of each Chapter should maintain a permanent complement of one hundred Vanguard Space Marines under the command of a Captain - known as Master of Reconnaissance - and supported by two Lieutenants. This standing force consists of hard-bitten veterans who have displayed particular aptitude for forward recon warfare..."

 

and:
"...Even those Chapters who are not Codex compliant and possesses no dedicated Scout Company - such as Space Wolves or Black Templar - ensure that there is always a standing formation of Vanguard battle-brothers..."

So what I understand from this is: :
1) 10th Company remains a Scout Company, so Scous are still part of it, right?
2) 10th Company gets additional 100 veteran battle-brothers 

 

Now the questions: 
What happened to Master of Recruits?
Is 10th Company now having 2 Captains (and 4 Lieutenants)?

 

2 Captains seems logical enough for me. Although both would successfully operate in the field, with basically similar battle-field tasks, Master of Recruits has very important additional role of overseeing induction and training of recruits.
Also there is a huge difference in leading veterans and novices.

 

What do you guys think?