The Vengeful Spirit during the Gothic War

[Quantum]

Hi all,

 

Warhammer Community just published a timeline on Abaddon's flagship, the Gloriana Class battleship Vengeful Spirit. Of particular note was this bit:

 

139-160.M41 12th Black Crusade – The Gothic War

 

The Gothic Sector was engulfed in war as Abaddon launched a devastating attack spearheaded by the Vengeful Spirit and a monstrous new vessel forged in the Eye of Terror – a terror weapon simply called Planet Killer. Four Blackstone Fortresses and countless billions of innocent Imperial lives were lost in one of the largest naval wars in Mankind’s history.

 

This is new to me: as far as I was aware the Planet Killer was Abaddon's flagship during the Gothic War, and I heard of no other battleships larger than the Desolator or Despoiler classes. 

 

Is this retcon unique to this article, or is there more background that I am not aware of on the actions of the Vengeful Spirit during the 12th Black Crusade?

 

EDIT: added link. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/03/grim-dark-corners-the-vengeful-spiritgw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-2/

[Brother Tyler]

This is a retcon. The Gloriana class of ship didn't exist when Battlefleet Gothic was written, only being introduced into the lore later when the Horus Heresy novels from The Black Library and the Age of Darkness books from Forge World were published.

[Tyriks]

Hm, I also have heard of the Planet Killer as being one of the hijacked Black Fortresses. But it's a separate thing?

[Kastor Krieg]

Hm, I also have heard of the Planet Killer as being one of the hijacked Black Fortresses. But it's a separate thing?

They converted one because it wasn't ETB ;)

[Excessus]

Planet Killer isn't a BSF, it's made by the dark mechanicum in the eye.

[Exilyth]

Codex: Eye of Terror (3rd edition campaign book about the 13th crusade) lists the planet killer as one of the known ships of the archenemy, stating it is of unknown class. The book also has fluff describing the planet killer to be a weapon created from a blackstone fortress. Or powered by blackstone fortresses? The texts are not very specific on this - talking about Abbadon capturing multiple black fortresses and building the planet killer using the fortresses (but not specifying how). Then he lost multiple fortresses and escaped with up to 2, according to unreliable narrative aka. some imperial navymen being quoted.

 

While the Vengeful Spirit is not listed among the known ships, there is a reference to some file with further information, indicating that other ships are known but not listed.

[SpecialIssue]

The Planet Killer was the flagship of Abaddon in the Gothic War, and was a previously-unknown class of ship constructed within the Eye of Terror, and possibly only able to be constructed there. It is a superweapon built around Aramgeddon Gun, a weapon able to catastrophically destroy a planet in a single blast. It was destroyed near the end of the war by being torpedoed from extreme range by squadrons of cruisers when it was caught without support, but has subsequently and mysteriously reappeared at the start of the 13th Black Crusade.

 

The Blackstone Fortresses were mysterious space-faring stations of unknown/unconfirmed xenos origin, of which 3 were claimed by Abaddon at the end of the Gothic War, with the rest still under Imperial hands mysteriously disintegrating at the end of the conflict. They fire pure warp energy, and are able to destroy stars, as well as decimate fleets, and are nigh-indestructible to any known measures.

 

All this info is according to the material in Battlefleet Gothic and current to the stated dates of 998.M41.

[Marshal Loss]

Good spot! I hadn't seen this article. A minor but interesting change. I don't mind it though, to be honest: just seeing the name Vengeful Spirit gets me all excited, and the continuity from 30k to 40k is nice.

[Quantum]

I have mixed feelings over this retcon.

 

On the one hand I love it that GW is tying events during the latter part of the Age of the Imperium to places, characters and technology that were present during the Heresy. It gives a certain continuity to the background lore. And I like that the Vengeful Spirit is now as much linked to Abaddon as Drach'nyen and the Talon. I can really imagine that every exploit of his is done from the bridge of this venerable ship. I would dare say that keeping this old Sons of Horus flagship is even a sign of sentimentality on Abaddon's part. Now I cannot imagine Abaddon orchestrating a massive invasion of a whole Imperial Sector without bringing his personal battleship with him. Compared to that the Planet Killer is an enigma; its history is unknown (save for a brief hint in the old Black Legion supplement), its fate uncertain, and its name... lacks orginality. That is a big problem in a setting where every bit of technology has a long and colorful history and is almost a character in its own right.

 

On the other hand, the background on the Gothic War was very good and very complete. Having 2 instead of one super-dreadnought prowling the Gothis Sector completely changes this background and invalidates much of it, which I think is a loss. Also, the Planet Killer was not even mentioned in the Fall of Cadia lore, which to me indicates that GW is not interested in it anymore and kind of forgot about it.

[Leif Bearclaw]

One thing to bear in mind. I think it was the BFG novel Execution Hour (not 100%, but it was some of the old BFG fluff) that described Abby's fleet in the early stages of the Gothic War listing (along with a couple of regular Battleships) an ancient Sons of Horus Battle Barge (strongly hinted to be Horus's old ride) escorting the Planet Killer. However, as previously stated, Gloriana's didn't exist back then, making the vessel 'just' another BB weight ship. So the real retcon is the existence of the Glorianas, and the Vengeful Spirit specifically as a 'mega super Battleship' (did the whole 'guns longer than entire Battleships' bit in the WC article seem OTT to anyone else?), rather than the presence of the old SoH flagship in the Gothic War.

[Sandlemad]

I have mixed feelings over this retcon.

 

On the one hand I love it that GW is tying events during the latter part of the Age of the Imperium to places, characters and technology that were present during the Heresy. It gives a certain continuity to the background lore. And I like that the Vengeful Spirit is now as much linked to Abaddon as Drach'nyen and the Talon. I can really imagine that every exploit of his is done from the bridge of this venerable ship. I would dare say that keeping this old Sons of Horus flagship is even a sign of sentimentality on Abaddon's part. Now I cannot imagine Abaddon orchestrating a massive invasion of a whole Imperial Sector without bringing his personal battleship with him. Compared to that the Planet Killer is an enigma; its history is unknown (save for a brief hint in the old Black Legion supplement), its fate uncertain, and its name... lacks orginality. That is a big problem in a setting where every bit of technology has a long and colorful history and is almost a character in its own right.

 

On the other hand, the background on the Gothic War was very good and very complete. Having 2 instead of one super-dreadnought prowling the Gothis Sector completely changes this background and invalidates much of it, which I think is a loss. Also, the Planet Killer was not even mentioned in the Fall of Cadia lore, which to me indicates that GW is not interested in it anymore and kind of forgot about it.

 

I agree with you about the Vengeful Spirit being increasingly tied to Abaddon rather than simply being the site of the Horus/Emperor duel. Based on its background in ADB's books, it's moved beyond being a feature of sentimentality/nostalgia on Abaddon's part and into having more post-heresy characteristics. The weird crystal thing, the detailed descriptions of how Lupercal's court has changed, the thing with Khayon's sister melding with the machine spirit as Ultio.

 

That does rather leave the Planet Killer hanging, but I see it as a sort of parallel to Drach'nyen, even if only superficially. Abaddon starts out with the talon as a sign of his station - crusade-era heirloom, somewhat warped - while he forms the legion and launches his plans, then later picks up Drach'nyen - much more dangerous on a galactic scale, obviously chaotic, a blunter kind of tool. Same for the Vengeful Spirit and the Planet Killer, depending a little on how ADB/the studio untangles the knot of the Planet Killer's origin. One's the flagship, the other's the fully operational superweapon.

 

RE: the name, well, the Krukal'Righ is sort of better, despite the apostrophe. More obviously what it's called in the Eye, with Planet Killer being the name whispered on however many worlds throughout the Gothic sector. A lot of names and titles, classic Black Legion.

[Morovir]

While not in the Fall of Cadia lore, Abaddon is on the Planet Killer in the epilogue of the Traitor's Hate campaign, released a few months earlier, so it's definitely not forgotten about.

 

In the old Battlefleet Gothic lore, the ancient Sons of Horus battle-barge was the Magna Tyrannis, later named the Harbinger of Doom, which at that point in the lore was the twin of the Vengeful Spirit and Abaddon's personal battle-barge during the Great Crusade/Heresy, which would make it another Gloriana in today's terms.

[Jareddm]

I too have mixed feelings about this change.  Part of me just always assumed that by the time the Planet Killer was established, the Vengeful Spirit  had been destroyed.  I don't know why I assumed this, but it felt like another way to symbolize a further step on Abaddon's journey.  Some epic campaign or quest, in or out of the Eye of Terror, that we haven't heard of yet in which the Vengeful Spirit ends up needing to be sacrificed, severing one more tie to Abaddon's past.  Knowing it's still around somehow doesn't feel like enough of a change for the Black Legion.

[Leif Bearclaw]

In the old Battlefleet Gothic lore, the ancient Sons of Horus battle-barge was the Magna Tyrannis, later named the Harbinger of Doom, which at that point in the lore was the twin of the Vengeful Spirit and Abaddon's personal battle-barge during the Great Crusade/Heresy, which would make it another Gloriana in today's terms.

You're right, I misremembered slightly. However, that's probably been superseded as 'old fluff' now. The WC article notes (not the first source to do this iirc) that the Vengeful Spirit was only rivalled by the Conqueror, Iron Blood and Hrafnkel among the Glorianas, which would imply it certainly didn't have a 'twin'. Combined with Conquest having Abby operating from the King Eater (and EH noting that the Harbinger was Abby's flagship for the entire Heresy), it would seem that the Harbinger has been stricken from fluff/merged with the Vengeful Spirit for plot reasons.

[Quantum]

' (did the whole 'guns longer than entire Battleships' bit in the WC article seem OTT to anyone else?), 

Yes. GW writing never seems to take a 'less is more' approach. If anything, I am surprised that the Vengeful Spirit's guns do not shoot battleships themselves...

 

 

That does rather leave the Planet Killer hanging, but I see it as a sort of parallel to Drach'nyen, even if only superficially. Abaddon starts out with the talon as a sign of his station - crusade-era heirloom, somewhat warped - while he forms the legion and launches his plans, then later picks up Drach'nyen - much more dangerous on a galactic scale, obviously chaotic, a blunter kind of tool. Same for the Vengeful Spirit and the Planet Killer, depending a little on how ADB/the studio untangles the knot of the Planet Killer's origin. One's the flagship, the other's the fully operational superweapon.

 

RE: the name, well, the Krukal'Righ is sort of better, despite the apostrophe. More obviously what it's called in the Eye, with Planet Killer being the name whispered on however many worlds throughout the Gothic sector. A lot of names and titles, classic Black Legion.

 

 

From a narrative standpoint the Planet Killer and Vengeful Spirit fill a similar role: as the overpowered, unique and customized ride of the main villain of the setting. As long as both exist, neither can fulfill its fearsome reputation (from a narrative, out-of-universe perspective): the Vengeful Spirit will always be overshadowed by that ship that has more threat potential, while the Planet Killer is seemingly came out of nowhere, doesn't have the amount of lore that the other ship has, and probably doesn't not resonate as much with the lore-loving fandom.

 

As for the name... if it sound like me trying to clear a sore throat it kind of lacks the gravitas I expect it to have.

 

 

I too have mixed feelings about this change.  Part of me just always assumed that by the time the Planet Killer was established, the Vengeful Spirit  had been destroyed.  I don't know why I assumed this, but it felt like another way to symbolize a further step on Abaddon's journey.  Some epic campaign or quest, in or out of the Eye of Terror, that we haven't heard of yet in which the Vengeful Spirit ends up needing to be sacrificed, severing one more tie to Abaddon's past.  Knowing it's still around somehow doesn't feel like enough of a change for the Black Legion.

 

The thing I like about the Planet Killer is how it shows that Chaos forces have become technologically different from the Imperium, not just 'Imperial stuff with spikes'. It makes sense that after about ten millenia the unique circumstances the Imperium and Chaos find themselves in would express themselves in their hardware: Chaos that uses ancient (possibly superior) designs, boosted by warp sorcery, but suffering form millennia of battle damage and perpetual lack of decent logistical support, while the Imperium no longer uses high-tech hardware, but has unlimited resources for its fleets.

[Lagrath]

For once, a really useful thread on a 40k forum, haha. Interesting reading, especially since I am currently reading Black Legion.

[Moonreaper666]

Both ships are present in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 along with the Sons of Malice

[Felix Antipodes]

 

In the old Battlefleet Gothic lore, the ancient Sons of Horus battle-barge was the Magna Tyrannis, later named the Harbinger of Doom, which at that point in the lore was the twin of the Vengeful Spirit and Abaddon's personal battle-barge during the Great Crusade/Heresy, which would make it another Gloriana in today's terms.

 

You're right, I misremembered slightly. However, that's probably been superseded as 'old fluff' now. The WC article notes (not the first source to do this iirc) that the Vengeful Spirit was only rivalled by the Conqueror, Iron Blood and Hrafnkel among the Glorianas, which would imply it certainly didn't have a 'twin'. Combined with Conquest having Abby operating from the King Eater (and EH noting that the Harbinger was Abby's flagship for the entire Heresy), it would seem that the Harbinger has been stricken from fluff/merged with the Vengeful Spirit for plot reasons.

The WC article says there were lesser Gloriana-class ships so the Magna Tyrannis could be one of those. The identical part could refer to build but not scale?

[Quantum]

Both ships are present in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 along with the Sons of Malice

Interesting. Does the Planet Killer have a specific narrative role in the game (aside from blowing up stuff)?

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

The WC article says there were lesser Gloriana-class ships so the Magna Tyrannis could be one of those. The identical part could refer to build but not scale?

 

Doubt it personally. That's really stretching the meaning of 'twin' when 'sister' would be a far more fitting term for what you describe. Coupled with the lack of mentions the Magna Tyranis has had in both the FW black books and the BL novels (I assume, given the lack of citations on the lexicanum article, that's been edited with an unsupported claim the Magna Tyranis was a Gloriana since this thread started), plus Abby using the Spirit as his flagship, it seems more likely that the ship's been filed away with the likes of Ranek Icewalker and Illiyan Nastase as superseded fluff.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

Both ships are present in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 along with the Sons of Malice

Interesting. Does the Planet Killer have a specific narrative role in the game (aside from blowing up stuff)?

Not really

 

Spire (protagonist of both the first and second game) blows it up with the asistance of the Maccrage Honour!

 

The second game is not canon though

[Quantum]

Remember the 40k story mantra: everything is canon, but nothing is necessarily true.

 

But a shame to hear that even in that game the Planet Killer fills no important narrative purpose. It strengthens my belief that the Vengeful Spirit has completely taken over the role of the Big Bad's personal Chariot-of-Doom^TM, making it largely redundant in the lore.

 

Which is a shame, as it filled an important role in the Gothic War lore and had a wonderful model, that should not go to waste.

[Ishagu]

The Planet Killer was destroyed in void combat by the Macragge's Honor.

 

The Vengeful spirit remains as Abaddon's flagship.

[Midnightmare]

The Planet Killer was destroyed in void combat by the Macragge's Honor.

 

The Vengeful spirit remains as Abaddon's flagship.

Imperial lies!!

 

*sticks taloned fingers into ears* la la la la

 

In all fairness, I am cool with the Vengeful Spirit being Abaddons flagship, though I always will have a soft spot for the Planet Killer. I do like Sandlemad’s comparison of the Vengeful and the Planet Killer to his own personal weapons of the Talon off Horus and Drach’nyen :tu:

[Marshal Loss]

The Planet Killer was destroyed in void combat by the Macragge's Honor.

 

In what book did that occur? The only possible time that could have occurred to my knowledge is in BFG Armada 2, a video game strictly stated to be non-canonical by the developers, in which case you are totally incorrect. By that logic, Abaddon and the Vengeful Spirit are also dead. They are not.