vanguard wolves: thoughts on the upcoming primaris?

[Guest Triszin]

I personally really like them, and think they fit extremely well with the space wolves

 

I grabbed some deathsworn today to kit bash with these

[killersquid]

I'm planning on getting these as my first primaris marines. They look super cool!

[PeteySödes]

I dig the infiltrators from a tactical perspective, they fill the role other marines armies get with scouts but likely better. I can see suppressors helping us out too with our need to get stuck in goofy as they are. Like the look of the snipers but i need to noodle on the role theyd play for my army, if they were higher than S4 i'd be more excited.

 

With that psychic discipline i do think it spotlights how our stuff is a bit over priced WC wise. WC6 all around is damn good and really reliable.

 

All in all a good release, i do think i'll wait for full kits across the board as well as waiting for the range to complete. If i had invested in reivers a bunch id be a bit testy after these new rules tbh.

[Guest Triszin]

I dig the infiltrators from a tactical perspective, they fill the role other marines armies get with scouts but likely better. I can see suppressors helping us out too with our need to get stuck in goofy as they are. Like the look of the snipers but i need to noodle on the role theyd play for my army, if they were higher than S4 i'd be more excited.

 

With that psychic discipline i do think it spotlights how our stuff is a bit over priced WC wise. WC6 all around is damn good and really reliable.

 

All in all a good release, i do think i'll wait for full kits across the board as well as waiting for the range to complete. If i had invested in reivers a bunch id be a bit testy after these new rules tbh.

Yes, it's something I flip Beck and forth over. Wait for the full kits or ? I expect the full kits and a space Marines v2 codex come june

[NatBrannigan]

If you can split the box with someone this will be a cracking deal. Probably £42.50 from a 3rd party shop. I'm going for it even though the full kits will probably have some better weapons for the Supressors at least. I do have a slight Autocannon fetish though...

 

The Captain I'm not a fan off but once I've wolfed him up a bit he should look just fine. Love the Librarian (sneaky Rune Priest? Very Space Wolf) and the rules will be useful. No longer will my Outflanking Aggressors / Hellblasters feel like they're all alone on a suicide mission.

 

I would have thought they'd put a new Riever datasheet in the mini codex you know, at the very least with the Phobos keyword added. I don't suppose that's a possibility at all that just hasn't been announced?

[PeteySödes]

 

 

I would have thought they'd put a new Riever datasheet in the mini codex you know, at the very least with the Phobos keyword added. I don't suppose that's a possibility at all that just hasn't been announced?

 

My guess is this will be included in a post Vigilus 2 or hopefully Shadowspear errata.

[WolfLordZeev]

The thing with the snipers is they are probably around 60 points for the unit. Combined with our dirt cheap fast attacks and Infiltrators as an actual worthehile troop choice and it opens up Brigades as an actual option.

[greysquigg]

Not sure I like the Q tip wielding flying dude. Looks like a heavy bolter with the end snipped off.

[Wispy]

I actually really dig the suppressors. Has a Gubdam feel to them.

[Dantay VI]

That Rune Priest might make a good Loki.

 

Although I am tempted with the cloak to give him a bearded head a staff and maybe go down the Odin route image-wise.

 

Already got a friend ready to go halves on the box set, so really happy for this.

[PeteySödes]

That Rune Priest might make a good Loki.

 

Although I am tempted with the cloak to give him a bearded head a staff and maybe go down the Odin route image-wise.

 

Already got a friend ready to go halves on the box set, so really happy for this.

 

Yea i'm vibing with the vanguard libby over the standard primaris model for a runepriest.  Still eagerly waiting to hear how they handle the libby/RP thing.

 

Vanguard RP discipline seems dumb and a good opportunity to introduce some positive differentiation for us vs "you just dont get apothecaries".

 

Edit: To clarify, seems dumb fluff wise that our priests would be split. Even worse would be hey fine we'll make a librarious conclave.

[Kasper_Hawser]

When I first saw all their abilities, my first thought was actually Erik Morkai's Great Company. The one which supposedly has more wolf scouts than anyone and also fights the dirtiest and "least honorable" among the Wolves, which i take to mean sniping, sneaking and other things. Almost all the Vanguard excel in battlefield disruption.

 

Their only weakness is that not one of them knows how to wield a power weapon. With the exception of the Librarian, they are almost devoid of close combat weapons beyond their bare gauntlets and knives.

 

And so our wait for a dedicated CC Primaris unit continues.

 

A bit sad that the Obscuration discipline only works for the Vanguard marines, or those with the Adeptus Astartes Phobos keyword. Can you imagine if you could cast Shrouding on our TWC or Wulfen or Wulfen Dreadnought? (Shrouding when casted on a friendly unit, makes it untargetable unless its the nearest like a character) It would increase their survival by leaps and bounds, just use Rhinos or other stuff to screen them while they rush up the board. Oh well, no cheese for Wolves as usual.

 

Poor Reivers, they really should get the Phobos keyword considering that visually speaking, nearly all the Vanguard marines armour look like the Reivers. I guess they got issued the armour without being told the serial number. And with all the Vanguard marines doing the sneaking even better than Reivers, my opinion and wish is that those combat knives should be POWER KNIVES!

 

Lol, half kidding. I love the reiver primaris for their savage look, but their rules really don't do them justice.

 

One last comment: combined with their Obscuration discipline, I think the Vanguard marines actually SYNERGIZES very well with each other. Most of their weakness, aka Close Combat and mainly AP0 weapons, is partially negated by their various "ignore cover" rules. Of course AP0 is still AP0, but at least marines in cover won't be claiming their 2+ save. This batch of primaris is the first time I see synergizes with themselves. Whether their point cost is worth it is another matter, but rules wise, these new Primaris are going to give the Warmaster a run for his money. Lack of CC aside, with their disruption abilities preventing within 12" deepstriking, we're going to have a fun time planning how to make CSM life miserable. Although that Venom crawler could potentially tank everything the Vanguard marines have and self heal at the same time. But those Greater Possesed will be mince meat for the Eliminators.

[CaptainStabby]

The Phobos armor is the Reiver armor. I suspect that will get updated somewhere soon.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Infiltrator and Eliminator squads look interesting to me. Infiltrators are neat that we finally have a unit with "Scout" deployment. So we can set up screens in deployment like other chapters. But it all depends on the cost. Will they be same cost as Intercessors? They look balanced with them. Lost AP and range and get some abilities. Same power level. I have heard that they may clock in at 4ppm more than Intercessors which may put them past usefulness for me. That would be expensive for a forward/screening unit at double the cost of a vanilla scout squad. Allying in vanilla scout squads will probably be more effective anyway. I should temper my initial enthusiasm. We haven't gotten much to make us feel like an 8th edition army and this trickle-down from marines does fill a useful tactical gap even if it's still not as efficient as vanilla scouts.

 

Eliminator squads are intriguing if the cost is correct. The unit has to be cheaper than a Vindicare assassin.

 

Suppressors meh. Captain meh. Lieutenant meh. I like our customizable non-primaris characters.

 

Librarian may be useful. I was hoping for more. I don't like the obscurus discipline as much as I'd hoped.

 

Edit: When we get kits for these units they may come with more weapon options which would be cool.

[Kasper_Hawser]

The Captain does come with the disruptor preventing deep striking within 12", so I won't completely write him off. Again depends on cost, though I expect he'll cost a little bit more than a primaris captain without a power fist. His super bolt carbine is reasonably long range so won't be just babysitting eliminators in cover.

 

The lieutenant on the other hand is nothing special beyond his ignore cover bolter. So yeah, our regular battle leaders are far more versatile than the lieutenant.

[lonewolf81]

The new units are cool looking but not that good ruleswise.

 

The infiltrators are the most useful of the vanguard but they will probably cost more than the intercessors because if they won't, they will be a lot better for the same cost. Marines need cheaper troop units badly.

 

The snipers are super cool looking but let's face it, they are shooting fireworks

 

The suppressors have the super good in 8th fly rule, but they get -1 when they move, the autocannon is not that killy and the deny overwatch thing works only on units with multiple models, while most of the time the thing that shoots the cr@p out of you is a vehicle, super heavy etc.

 

All in all, i wanted better rules for the units, the one thing left to see is their point cost which may change my view but I doubt it

[Kasper_Hawser]

The new units are cool looking but not that good ruleswise.

 

The infiltrators are the most useful of the vanguard but they will probably cost more than the intercessors because if they won't, they will be a lot better for the same cost. Marines need cheaper troop units badly.

 

The snipers are super cool looking but let's face it, they are shooting fireworks

 

The suppressors have the super good in 8th fly rule, but they get -1 when they move, the autocannon is not that killy and the deny overwatch thing works only on units with multiple models, while most of the time the thing that shoots the cr@p out of you is a vehicle, super heavy etc.

 

All in all, i wanted better rules for the units, the one thing left to see is their point cost which may change my view but I doubt it

 

You are correct that in the end, it depends on the costs. But I personally I think they are good enough. They have far more rules than normal, and that is BEFORE chapter tactics and strategems come into play. Bear in mind, those Suppressor auto cannons are AP-2, not AP-1 like regular auto cannons. Space wolves also have Keen Senses to negate it. We can potentially save a CP for outflanking and fly them in instead.

 

Not sure what you mean by Snipers shooting fireworks, the rounds they shoot are pretty nasty except for hyperfrag which is D3 shots S4 AP0. Unless you are talking about the general S4, then maybe I'm inclined to agree.

 

Erik Morkai is going to be delighted with them i expect.

[sbarnby71]

From a pure modelling point of view, can't wait to get my hands on these, love all the extra kit on the Infiltrators, Eliminators & Lieutenants - for years the wolf scout models have just been so meeh, so now we get something that looks worthy of a true recon unit.  Shame they are such static poses, but that's the way the GW seem to be going at the moment, no real biggy for me as I won't be painting up more than this box set.

 

But the Suppressors just look silly to me, they looks so unbalanced that a slight puff of wind and it will be the DeadPool X-Force landing all over again!

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

But the Suppressors just look silly to me, they looks so unbalanced that a slight puff of wind and it will be the DeadPool X-Force landing all over again!

 

Not sure if they have the massive jet pack that Inceptors do. But you are correct, right now from the pictures, they look pretty unbalanced. And Inceptors are wobbly enough as it is.

[Guest Triszin]

I wouldn't be too surprised if Rievers get the "Knife Fighter" rule the lieutenant has. (this would be a good and necessary boost to them, that wouldn't make them too over powered)

 

I grabbed 2 deathsworn kits and a legion storm sheild axe upgrade kit yesterday, grabbing this set when it comes out. gonna re-model my lieutenant as having a deathsworn helmet and using axes.

[Karhedron]

I would be tempted by the Infiltrators if I had not just splashed out on a bunch of Intercessors for my wolves. 

 

On paper they look to fill a useful niche in our army since we don't get Troop Scouts with proper infiltration. A lot will depend on points. They have the same PL as Intercessors which at last looks to be in the right ballpark. I would not be surprised to see them start at 20 ppm and get revised down later on the way Intercessors have been.

 

The fact that the new Psychic powers only target PHOBOS units is disappointing but not surprising. This is a good example of GW using keywords to prevent unintended synergies arising. Imagine casting Shrouding on a big unit of Wulfen or using Temporal Corridor to launch a tooled up Wolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter into the enemy on T1.

[PeteySödes]

I would be tempted by the Infiltrators if I had not just splashed out on a bunch of Intercessors for my wolves. 

 

 

Gah sorry to hear that. This type of stuff always makes me wait on things with new releases. Makes tourney prep suuuuuck though. "I guess i need them GOGOGOGOGOGO."

 

 

The fact that the new Psychic powers only target PHOBOS units is disappointing but not surprising. This is a good example of GW using keywords to prevent unintended synergies arising. Imagine casting Shrouding on a big unit of Wulfen or using Temporal Corridor to launch a tooled up Wolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter into the enemy on T1.

 

Someone brought it up in the news thread but i resonated with me. I get the idea behind the restriction but it makes it feel too much like a stratagem IMO. I got crap for saying it but it's also really weird to me fluff wise.

[Guest Triszin]

I would be tempted by the Infiltrators if I had not just splashed out on a bunch of Intercessors for my wolves. 

 

On paper they look to fill a useful niche in our army since we don't get Troop Scouts with proper infiltration. A lot will depend on points. They have the same PL as Intercessors which at last looks to be in the right ballpark. I would not be surprised to see them start at 20 ppm and get revised down later on the way Intercessors have been.

 

The fact that the new Psychic powers only target PHOBOS units is disappointing but not surprising. This is a good example of GW using keywords to prevent unintended synergies arising. Imagine casting Shrouding on a big unit of Wulfen or using Temporal Corridor to launch a tooled up Wolf Lord with Saga of the Hunter into the enemy on T1.

I just think GW did it for easy and fast balancing. If it could work on any marine unit atm, there would be potentially game breaking combinations that show up that quick testing didnt show.

 

 

if there is a new marine dex incoming int he next 6 months I could see the phobos keyword going away.

 

 

and I agree with fear, most of those "phobos" only spells should've been strats as they read like strategems.

[PeteySödes]

Totally Triszin, Im curious if this is the start of a new rule style that will close the current permissive ruleset. It's very interesting and a topic that I talk about in my group all the time. I really liked the crunch of the previous editions USRs and vehicle rules. 8th played real fast and deadly in the index phase but now seems crazy slow IMO with how the movement rules have shaken out. 

[Guest Triszin]

Totally Triszin, Im curious if this is the start of a new rule style that will close the current permissive ruleset. It's very interesting and a topic that I talk about in my group all the time. I really liked the crunch of the previous editions USRs and vehicle rules. 8th played real fast and deadly in the index phase but now seems crazy slow IMO with how the movement rules have shaken out. 

ya its odd for sure. I think the slow down of games might of come from the Meta soup and need for multiple books. and potentially interactions that werent really supposed to happen.

 

I could also see spells that "benefit" insert keyword as a semi replacement for strats because of how prevalent ( I cancel your strat!) has become at tournaments