30k Truescale Tutorials?

[Jagus Kumkani]

I'm starting a 30k army here soon and I was wondering if you fine gents would help me out or point me in the right direction in converting 30 models to "truescale".

 

Thanks!

[Ryltar Thamior]

There's a few tutorials floating around - if you search up Doghouse's work, he's got several tutorials about the place. Try these two threads. 

Apologist has also done an entire series of truescaling tutorials, up on his blog. [i have used part of his grey-knight terminator torso method on one occasion, to very positive effect]

I'd further recommend taking a look around some of the WIP/Hall of Heroes threads, for further guidance and ideas. There's a showcase thread up here. 

And, for good measure, there'll probably be some items of use in our HH log. 

Funnily enough, truescaling Heresy-era marines is actually one of the easier sorts to do; at least in my experience.

This is because 40k-era armour patterns are surprisingly 'difficult' to do. That's because, to get Mk.VII or Mk.VIII legs in truescale, you'd have to do a reasonable amount of infilling , cutting, and probably repositioning (due to the poses on indomitus legs being .. bleh, for the most part, as far as I'm concerned]. 

30k,, however, makes it easy - as you're effectively, for the most part, probably going to be building Mk.III - or, in some legions' and formations' cases, Mk.VI. [Obviously, some of these armour marks show up in 40k, as well, but except as applies some rather 'special cases', it'd seem a bit odd to have entire squads or armies clad in such archaic panoply].

And to do *that*, the main thing you need are sets of Cataphractii and Tartaros legs, respectively - which, helpfully enough, there's now a reasonable diversity of posing on  thanks to multiple releases [e.g. various legion-specific terminators from FW etc.]. The poses themselves are also generally much more 'believable' and 'realistically dynamic' than the Indomitus etc. equivalents, but that may just be me having a hang-up. [there's a bit of an exception with Iron Hands Gorgon Terminators, which are quasi-Indomitus anyway, but I've managed to get some use out of them; and Umbral, my comrade-in-conversion, has even managed to do some pretty cool stuff with the World Eaters Red Butcher legs ... which i'd written off as basically being like that bow-legged meme-morphology John Lennon image]. [note: you may have to trim down the upper mounting on the legs, especially if it's one of the FW ones with the 'trunk' of the body largely or partially on them, like the Salamanders ones that i forget hte name of momentarily - this may also require building something over the abdominal gap, especially if it leads to an even 'taller' marine than usually expected] 

From there, what you'll be wanting to do, is working out a method of constructing torsos. If you're patient and use greenstuff, it's possible to build proper-scale torsos that look pretty legit by bulking out plastic ones 'down and out' , and adding depth in the middle. Cabling is, of course, your friend. 

However, I'm neither of these things, so when i've been building , I've generally gone for a 'short cut' approach of taking the front part from a plastic Tartaros or Cataphractii torso, the rear part from just about any regular-scale Marine plastic torso, and trimming around the shoulders of  the terminator frontspiece so that they go together. Then infilling in the front half of the  neck and collarbone region to build it 'up' to where it should sit with the back half neck socket, with carved up bits of sprue and resin [which is a pointlessly intensive task if you're up to greenstuffing it or whatever, but I don't use that sooooo ] . 

And then using cut up parts of cataphractii plastic shoulder pauldrons etc. to build out the rear of the torso around the regular-scale torso so that it matches up in terms of armoured exterior with the terminator frontspiece around the waist, etc. while still leaving hte mounting for the backpack. This does leave an area around the upper shoulderblades which mght be somewhat underarmoured, so i've put in a variety of 'creative' solutions on a lot of Marines i've buil, in that viciniy - one of which is hiding it via hte upper rims of Mk.III shoulderpads; others including yet more cabling, etc. :P [this can leave a rather unsightly 'crack' in the back of the torso , but this is workable around in a number of manners] 

[note: especially with, say, Space Wolves .. but also other such legions that have that more 'barbaric' vibe going on ... fur pelts and stuff can be quite the friend. I'm sure similar aesthetic gap-covering can be done with parchments, and oaths of moment, and other such accessories for other legions]

[other options, may include stuff based around cut down FW terminator torsos - i've done something like this with Grave Warden torsos, and I *think* at least Iron Warrior Siege Terminator torso; and am contemplating something like this with Gorgon terminator torsos; Umbral's had some reasonable success modding cut-down FW Tartaros torsos for me, likewise. ] [and, as noted, Apologist's idea with alterations to  a Grey Knight terminator torso, which I've had a slightly modified success with]

Now from there, it's a matter of arms. And unfortunately, regular-scale Marine arms can look a little bit small on such large torsos and legs. But only a little bit. I've generally found that adding an extender in the shoulder/arm-socket area , covered over by the bits from the inside back of knees from regualar-scale Marine legs, will bulk it out quie reasonably - while also opening up additional options in terms of posing, etc. 

You can also augment this with heavier/larger arms - there are some pretty decent ones in the Ravenwing Command box, if I recall; and Mk.III plastic arms [FW ones are smaller] are also good for this. Primaris arms are, predictably, also potentially useful, as are Deathwatch ones - although the Primaris in particular you'll have to watch out for, as there's a rather noticeable differential in terms of size/circumference between the cross-section of their wrists and regular/ordinary Marine hands ... which matters in terms of weapons and such. You *might* find some use for some of the thinner Terminator arms in such a role, but that'll depend what you're building. 

It is a bit of a process getting some of the regular-scale Marine weapons to 'fit' around a suitalby embiggened torso [it's kinda like the occasional ordeal that getting regular-scale weapons-with-both-hands-moulded-on onto Primaris torsos is like] ; but fortunately, the much more 'old-school' fits of the HH range mean you won't often have to face that - mounting a phobos bolter with mk.III arms on a truescale, for instance, is just simply a matter of moving the left arm outwards from where it would ordinarily sit on the underside of the boltgun, by a small amount. 

There's a further bit of an issue when it comes to stowage - since the legs of terminators are a bit .. different in terms of belts and such; but nothing that shouldn't be relatively easily overcomeable. 

Oh yeah, one other thing to watch out for is that some of the FW terminator kits are a bit 'odd' in how they're moulded. For example, whereas *most* of the FW HH terminators are made up of separate legs and torsos , thus making truescaling in the above manner reasonably straightforward [if occasionally a bit 'fiddly'] ... *some* FW terminators are instead moulded as legs and torsos together in one - thus necessitating either attempting to cut through at the waist to get a serviceable set of legs ; or attempting to build up from the neckline on the extant torso as-is. I recently picked up some Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators and encountered exactly this issue - I think i'll go the latter route ... which will handily mean that the shoulders can largely stay where they are, and it's just hte head that'll now be actually *above* them :P .

There's a further potential issue , insofar as armour marks outside III and VI (and, of course, V .. sort-of] , are a bit thin on the ground, if you build this way. I've a single Marine in Mk.IV, built [by Umbral] from the Red Scorpions terminator character, as he had the right shaped kneepads [Thousand Sons terminators - the 40k plastics i mean - *might* be viable for this, but i haven't looked into it in any great detail] ; and I have no idea how you'd viably do Mk.II - but that may not matter much, as the bulk of Marines in Mk.III should be fine for most Heresy forces; and it's a very decent look anyway. 

Oh, as a further thought - I seem to recall seeing some mention of shapeways having somebody doing greaves or shinplates or whatever to go with Primaris plastics, to make converting those to earlier armour marks in truescale a lot easier. I saw them, sillily didn't think to make a note of who it was, and haven't been able to find them again. Perhaps others may be able to assist.

Umbral's also had some success manually rebuilding Primaris legs in such a manner - he's used hellblaster legs for a rather dynamic set of Raptors, for instance. 

Anyway, there's a few ideas and processes for you. Let us know how your efforts turn out! 



 

[apologist]

Brother Thamior's given a very thorough rundown, so I'll simply echo his thoughts. Doghouse's tutorials are always excellent, and include a 'no-greeenstuff' version, if you just want to try the principle out.

 

If you're after Terminators, I've done a tutorial for larger Terminators here.

 

Other than that, my advice is to get some artwork in front of you for inspiration. Part of the fun of the Heresy/pre-Heresy-era is the freedom to go a bit off-piste and explore your own ideas, while bringing new models to life.

[Grotsmasha]

SUCCESS !!!!!

 

 

Martox: Thanks mate 

 

BlueBelly1863: Thanks mate, yeah SW:A is perfect for a project like this because you'll probably only need about five or six marines unless you go all out with no cultists. Then from there you can expand on them or just add them to an existing 40k army when the new detachments system comes out. They could also be counts as marines 2.0 if need be.

 

Cpt Ventris: Not just yet, still plotting and scheming... 

 

deathspectresgt67: Not a bad idea mate, once I have the base 30 and 2 HQ units the sky is the limit as it goes for other Legions/Chapters joining them.

 

On a request from Cpt Ventris I've put together this quick rough and ready tutorial going into a bit more detail for those that want to have a bash or make their own kill team. It's a bit on the fly but hopefully will make sense.

 

So first off a list of parts:

 

1: Cataphracti Terminator Legs

2: Tartarus Terminator Breast Plate

3: Rear half of any Space Marine plastic torso (I used Mk4 purely for the cables)

4: Space Marine Head, Arms, Weapon, Back Pack and Shoulder Pads. (MK 3 armour works best because it is bulkier and it won't make the arms look too skinny).

 

 

Step 1

 

First off you'll need the front half of a Tartarus terminator. What you want to do is first cut off the two over hanging lips that insert into the terminator torso. It's best to use the bottom edge of the armour where it ends as a rough guide so it is straight and will let you attach the back of the marine. Laying it flat on it's back should 

 

http://i65.tinypic.com/rsflua.jpg

 

http://i68.tinypic.com/qx2scx.jpg

 

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/1zlpzdx.jpg

 

 

Once this is done you can then move onto the back, you want to remove the lower segment below the torso first of all then glue it so the tops of both the back and front are level with each other.

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/14bnibk.jpg

 

http://i65.tinypic.com/nvqqgj.jpg

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/34dijnr.jpg

 

 

Next up we glue this to the legs which will be unmodified so no hassle with cutting or anything unless you want to repose the legs. There are two ways you can do with. One place a small piece of sprue on top of the connecting nub that forms the waist on the legs then glue the torso on top of that (which I forgot to photograph...). If you do this dry fit it first before adding any glue to make sure that you have the height set about right, the front of the torso should be set so the cables are just meeting at the top with the torso.

This is the sturdiest way to make these guys, as I knock these out on the fly I tend to put glue all around inside of the torso and then sort of balance it so it stays in place. The sprue method is a lot stronger though.

Once this is done set it to one side and let the glue set the two pieces together, if you are impatient like me about 15 mins I think should do it? It's important to let it set because you will be applying pressure once you start the green stuff work.

 

http://i65.tinypic.com/qnv0o2.jpg

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/161hjbt.jpg

 

And now the scary part...

 

Step 2 

 

 

Green stuffing for the uninitiated can be down right intimidating but I want to go through this process with you to show you it's not as scary as it first sounds. You are going to hear all sort of tricks about room temperatures and ratios but I want you to forget all that, for our purposes we are going to treat this as blu tac. Blu tac isn't scary...

Before I go any further, for those that are completely put off by the thought of GS work I will put up a plasticard method later that might make it easier.

 

Green stuff (Kneadatite) basically comes together either on a strip or two separate tubes which are are yellow and blue. The term green stuff is a phrase coined by citadel sculptors because once the two are mixed the putty goes green....and it's stuff....

First off you want to cut equal amounts of each from each strip or tube and mix it together till you get one solid colour with no streaks of blue or yellow in it. You don't have to go crazy here, it's better to cut small parts off each and then make another similar sized piece and add it to the first rather than use too much and end up wasting materials.

Play around with a little bit of it at first, the more yellow you add the softer and sticker it will become but you want to avoid going past 40% blue and 60% yellow. The more blue you add the firmer it will be but it will be harder to manage.

 

Once you are happy you have the hang of it you want to make a little sausage of green stuff and put it on the back of the model like below. You don't want to go overboard here so what you are looking at is trying to guess how much will fill the gap. Remember you can always add more after if you missed some gaps but in general you want to get it as one solid piece so that it is easier to smooth.

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/2zovw40.jpg

 

http://i64.tinypic.com/34rzmmx.jpg

 

 

Now the sculpting part. For this you can use a regular citadel metal sculpting tool but what you really want to get is a clay shaper.

Yeah I know that sounds really artsy fartsy but it will make the world of difference and they only cost a few quid. You ideally want a 0 Flat Chisel Clay Shaper, it's basically a paint brush but instead of bristles you have a rubber chisel shaped tip.

 

Next you want to wet the tip of the sculpting tool with water, not drown it or anything just so there is a thin coat. It doesn't really matter how much you put on but this will create a film between the tool and the GS that will help you smooth the surface.

First of all you want to push the GS up to meet the bottom of the marine torso back then once you have that push the rest down to the waste. Don't worry too much about how much you have hanging down at the bottom we'll get to that next. But it should look like this below, to smooth the surface of the GS once this is done move the tool in little circular patterns, this will make the surface nice and flat and remove stuff like finger prints.

 

Important note: while doing this step, hold the model by the torso, ideally between finger and thumb on the parts where the arms would be. You will be applying some pressure to the model and holding it by the legs will probably result in snapping it at the waist and we want all the pressure being applied to the torso.

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/52j591.jpg

 

 

This next step can be done in two ways, the first is while the GS is still wet which isn't a great idea for a beginner. If you do it this way do not slice you want to carefully tilt the blade tip first in the far side of the waist then roll the blade gently pressing into the GS as you work around the waist.

 

The easier way is to let it set for a good thirty mins or more then carefully slice it so the bottom of the GS is level with the bottom edge like you would if it were plastic.

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/mhg1oz.jpg

 

http://i68.tinypic.com/2l937fb.jpg

 

 

Step 3: The Neck

 

This bit is pretty simple if you are using a helmeted head because it will cover the GS work once in place. What you want to do is roll a small ball of GS like before and place it in the neck socket.

 

http://i68.tinypic.com/2u5b38m.jpg

 

Then using your sculpting tool of choice press the GS pushing out to the edges so that it fills the neck covering the gaps. Remember to use a circular motion and water after to smooth the surface.

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/ozss4.jpg

 

Once this is done either did the other end of the tool in water or use the blunt end of a paint brush and lightly push into surface using a twisting motion. You want this roughly center between the shoulders but not too far forwards. This indentation I made is maybe a little deep but if you find it is just let it dry and add a little bit more GS into the gap you have made. Once you are happy with this you can then smooth the surface if need be but for the most part this will be covered by the helmet. I tend to do this for bare heads where you will see the neck more.

 

http://i68.tinypic.com/9frxw8.jpg

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/2rogp5w.jpg

 

Then lastly you just need to click the top off the belt tabbard and stick it into the socket on the front of the model.

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/2lvelqb.jpg

 

From here on it's basically making a Marine the way you normally would, sticking the head and pack and bits as normal.

 

http://i64.tinypic.com/2jez3mb.jpg

 

You may find you need to play around with the arms a bit to get them to fit so experiment with dry fitting before gluing.

 

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask here or send me a PM. 

 

[Grotsmasha]

This what I followed for mine, I've been using Cataphractii for mkIII and Tartaros for mkIV, I also skipped all of the greenstuff....

For the Tartaros, I trimmed the entire torso front where it meets the mkIV torso rear to be level and flat, completely removing the gap shown above in Doghouse's version, as you can see below, there is still plenty of room the helm. I also did not trim the torso rear.

[Ryltar Thamior]

Oh, that was the other thing i forgot to mention, which Frater Apologist has reminded me of : -  ... for terminators, one relatively simple - albeit pricey - option is simply using the extant rather large terminator Primarchs , with appropriate alterations to detail as necessary. 

We've done this with the Horus miniature, swapping out head, some weapons alteration, and turning all the "XVI"s to "VI"s ... to produce a pretty impressive-looking Space Wolf terminator [i think we named him "Softpaw" for obvious-ironic reasons]; and, on a non-30k basis (although there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't work for 30k with some alteration of bitz] , Perturabo into a terminator armoured techmarine , via the addition of a grey knight terminator helm and other such changes. 

The upcoming plastic Abaddon miniature would probably be even riper fodder for such efforts, although I may be overstating this somewhat as i'm unsure just how much bigger than a Primaris slash smaller than his father, he is. 

Now, it's worth noting that "technically speaking" , going down the Primarch route will probably produce an oversized miniature even relative to other truescales ; which we've generally handwaved with the idea that the particular Astartes were giants among their kind even *before* getting into terminator armour. And which i suppose you can sort-of see in the relatively lesser than expected sizing differential between the HH era FW Abaddon and Horus. 

The method suggested by Brother Apologist (based around the FW Custodes terminators - Aquilons?) is almost certainly better proportioned, and doesn't suffer from the *other* rather large problem of the 'Primarch' method .. of it being difficult to do more than one or two coz only that many primarchs in terminator armour :P ; although I suppose there may be a fair amount of detail-scraping involved, dependent upon which legion you're intent on running [less for, for instance IIIrd, I'd imagine; and doubly so if they're veterans of Terran/Solar Unification bearing the Raptor Imperialis] ; I suspect that the Allarus Custodes may be viable for similar purposes [they seem to be rather smaller about the legs in particular than their brethresin], but haven't tried it out yet. The main 'issue' in either case, other than those aforementioned, would probably be the power-systems and exhausts on the back. 

Umbral [as noted, my associate in these matters who's done a lot of our construction/conversion work previously] has done a rather more involved truescale [chaos] terminator , which you can find towards the end of the aforementioned Vox Stellarum Horus Heresy log I linked in the previous post , built out of an array of things including Space Marine Centurion [the 40k ones, obviously] bitz. Although not in the way a number of other people have used that kit to truescale terminators with, which I've often found not to look quite right. Actually, i think the base miniature *might* be one of the old [now] large Obliterators? He explains in the post, anyway, I think. 

There *might* be a way to use the current Gravis Plate Primaris for 30k era Terminator conversions; I'll have a think about it. [by which i mean : of course there is, it's just a question of how much needs to be chopped and rebuilt where, and whether the level of effort entailed is actually worth it, given other potential options]

Oh, as a further thought, you could do some rather interesting larger-scale terminator conversion to produce a Saturnine pattern suit. This gets around various proportionality issues by slapping massive armour plates and even more massive pauldrons on it. 

Although part of the issue with terminators and truescaling *all up* is that there's a fundamental 'twinge' between our general desire for greater proportionality and er .. "realism" in the latter, and the lack of either in many extant terminator miniature (or even art, albeit to a usually lesser extent) designs. But hey - that just means greater expanse for 'creativity' in tackling the challenge of reconcilement, right? 

 

[MikhalLeNoir]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303402-xith-wardens-of-light-today-truscale-tartaros-tutorial/?p=4677077

 

 

Here a tartaros truscale tutorial I created