Future Directions (theory-crafting future release 40K)

[WarriorFish]

The topic is back after some tidying up - if you wish to discuss something in particular detail please consider the wider topic and take it to a new one. Alternatively if it's just a discussion between two PMs could be an option converse at liberty. Thanks.

[Marshal Rohr]

This is basically where I'd hoped Vigilus was going to go:

 

1. Vigilus Sangua Terra is compromised and the Nachmund Gauntlet becomes unreliable. 

 

2. The only way to cross the Maledictum reliably is by pushing through with a newly-designed "Icebreaker" ship, with a massive Noctilith prow that temporarily pushes the warp out of the way. The process is slow, and the Icebreaker ships are extremely few in number due to the difficultly of acquiring the necessary quantities of Blackstone.

 

3. Guilleman issues the Edict of Autonomy, giving Sectors in the Imperium Nihilus the right to divert resources towards their own self-defense and self-governance. 

 

4. Abaddon launches a massive effort to claim the entire Imperium Nihilus. He's successful for a while, but is eventually stopped. (probably by the Khan or Russ or whatever.)

 

So basically the dark half of the galaxy isn't a single coherent Imperium anymore - it's a scattered mess of semi-autonomous fiefdoms. Some of these have been conquered by Chaos and are under the control of the Dark Gods, but most continue to offer at least nominal fealty to the Imperium. 

 

The main point of this would be to provide for more opportunities to explore distinct societies as they develop unmoored from the cultural gravity of the Imperium. Normal-people-living-under-chaos is one of the most chronically under-explored aspects of the setting, but the loyalist sectors have a lot of potential as well. One sector might end up being directly governed by the local SM chapter, while another might negotiate a relationship with the T'au empire. These kinds of major divergences might not work in the proper Imperium but would become possible with a bit of autonomy. 

And of course, if you want to tells stories about the monolithic Imperium, you still have the entire other half of the galaxy in which to do that.

 

All of this is awesome. 

[Lexington]

So basically the dark half of the galaxy isn't a single coherent Imperium anymore - it's a scattered mess of semi-autonomous fiefdoms.

So, you’re saying the Imperium would become...the Imperium??? :p

[Slave to Darkness]

If the Imperium is cut in half, how does that affect the Emperor getting his daily snack of psyker souls? Surely they will run out at some point?

With so much warp energy flying about I can imagine an increase in the birthrate of mutants, maybe causing an increase in religious hysteria. Could tie in nicely with the Sisters of Battle release and would be a good opportunity for a Killteam/BSF expansion with some mutants and other assorted sewer chewers that could eventually end up in a LotD codex.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

This is basically where I'd hoped Vigilus was going to go:

 

3. Guilleman issues the Edict of Autonomy, giving Sectors in the Imperium Nihilus the right to divert resources towards their own self-defense and self-governance. 

 

 

Sectors are already pretty autonomous, aren't they? Even in the Imperium generally speaking because civilian warp travel takes longer times to go from sector to sector, besides the Tithe and whatever other trade is established between worlds, there isn't that much of a true Imperial presence on most worlds. Most of the defense and internal governance already occurs on a sector or even system level with no real direct Imperial oversight. In Nihilus, I'd imagine that because Warp travel is even more difficult, this is exacerbated to the nth degree, but it's largely an extension of what is already the state of affairs in the Imperium as a whole.

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

They can keep Yarrick alive by having him affected by Great Rift induced time dilation.

Theres also the thing, that yarrick might still be alive because Orks think he is.

This is the best possible explanation for Yarrick still being alive, and in top form.

 

Simply that every Ork in the galaxy believes he cannot die. Therefore he can't.

 

It would be hilarious if Yarrick crossed over into being a Perpetual by the power of the Orks believing he already is one.

 

It would be a great opportunity for GW to release a new, updated model for him that is somewhat larger. Basically, the Orks telling stories about "dat 'umie what can't be crumped" causing him to actually grow in stature.

[Ishagu]

Could also be explained by time being funny due to the rift. He's been in an area that has progressed slower relatively.

[RandomMarine]

Surely with enough faith juice Big E could just create lots of that weird kid from shroud of night and established a network of mini astromonicons in nilhus , which given my understanding of how Navigating the warp works would allow for more accurate warp jumps aswell

[Doctor Perils]

This is the best possible explanation for Yarrick still being alive, and in top form.

 

Simply that every Ork in the galaxy believes he cannot die. Therefore he can't.

 

It would be hilarious if Yarrick crossed over into being a Perpetual by the power of the Orks believing he already is one.

 

It would be a great opportunity for GW to release a new, updated model for him that is somewhat larger. Basically, the Orks telling stories about "dat 'umie what can't be crumped" causing him to actually grow in stature.

Better still, Yarrick ascends to be the third Ork god, York. Half Cunning, Half Brutal, and Half Cunning again...

[Guest]

 

This is basically where I'd hoped Vigilus was going to go:

 

3. Guilleman issues the Edict of Autonomy, giving Sectors in the Imperium Nihilus the right to divert resources towards their own self-defense and self-governance.

 

Sectors are already pretty autonomous, aren't they? Even in the Imperium generally speaking because civilian warp travel takes longer times to go from sector to sector, besides the Tithe and whatever other trade is established between worlds, there isn't that much of a true Imperial presence on most worlds. Most of the defense and internal governance already occurs on a sector or even system level with no real direct Imperial oversight. In Nihilus, I'd imagine that because Warp travel is even more difficult, this is exacerbated to the nth degree, but it's largely an extension of what is already the state of affairs in the Imperium as a whole.

I disagree, Guilliman took power away from the 500 worlds and gave Space Marines (UM mostly) more power over planets. If anything Guilliman is removing humans and a planets ability to self-govern itself. He makes it abundantly clear he does not trust humans to govern themselves, hence why he is working on a codex on how to run a planet.

 

When the High Lord's spoke up that this wasn't the Emperor's plane, and it wasn't, he simply removed them. So opposing Guilliman is a big no.

[Panzer]

Ultramar is an exception though. Guilliman is the only one who was building an imperium within the imperium and the Ultramarines just kept it going until Guilliman returned and put the Space Marines in charge because the humans were all so corrupt after 10k years of leaving things in their hands.

[Ishagu]

He's specifically using the 500 worlds as an example of how prosperous and meritocratic the Imperium can be.

 

He decided that if Ultramar was smaller the message it conveyed wasn't as loud and powerful.

[Guest]

Ultramar is an exception though. Guilliman is the only one who was building an imperium within the imperium and the Ultramarines just kept it going until Guilliman returned and put the Space Marines in charge because the humans were all so corrupt after 10k years of leaving things in their hands.

He also gave Dante control of Nihilus(?) and to start deconing Baal. He is setting up SM to rule humans. I hate the idea of this but that is the path it is going down. Let's hope that Guilliman can have some character growth and reverse this.

[Quantum]

Personally, I hope that GW would put more emphasis on their own premise that the Imperium is a Feudal realm, and not a unified empire.

 

Sure, the various planets are tied together by a (somewhat) common religion, and Imperial-wide law and interstellar traffic & communication is overseen by the Adeptus Terra, but otherwise the various powers in the Imperium interact with one another by a complex network of (often hereditary) fealty, oaths, vows, duties and privileges.

 

I hate it when GW refers to the 'nightmare of the Imperium Nihilus', because the hobbling of interstellar travel would for many worlds have little short term impact. Yes, Hive Worlds may face starvation if regular food shipments can no longer reach their destination, but many Civilized Worlds are effectively self-sufficient. In fact, if the Administratum's power and its capacity to collect its tithes has been reduced by the cut-off from Terra, some worlds may even experience an economic boom.

 

I would prefer to regard the Imperium Nihilus as a new frontier; every single world there is now at the edge of Imperial space, staring into the void, with all the dangers and oppostunities that it entails (which is, by the way, exactly how I envision my fan-designed Forge World ).     

[Rik Lightstar]

Retired Chapter Masters being almost incorruptible in the terms that most "mortals" would recognise seem like ideal Sector Governors, also as they're not capable of reproducing there can't be any nepotism either.

 

Rik

[Sete]

What could go wrong.

[Ishagu]

There's no agenda with Guilliman in terms of appointing Astartes. He simply wants efficient people in charge, not some greed driven layabouts who inherited their position.

[Panzer]

Personally, I hope that GW would put more emphasis on their own premise that the Imperium is a Feudal realm, and not a unified empire.

 

Sure, the various planets are tied together by a (somewhat) common religion, and Imperial-wide law and interstellar traffic & communication is overseen by the Adeptus Terra, but otherwise the various powers in the Imperium interact with one another by a complex network of (often hereditary) fealty, oaths, vows, duties and privileges.

 

I hate it when GW refers to the 'nightmare of the Imperium Nihilus', because the hobbling of interstellar travel would for many worlds have little short term impact. Yes, Hive Worlds may face starvation if regular food shipments can no longer reach their destination, but many Civilized Worlds are effectively self-sufficient. In fact, if the Administratum's power and its capacity to collect its tithes has been reduced by the cut-off from Terra, some worlds may even experience an economic boom.

 

I would prefer to regard the Imperium Nihilus as a new frontier; every single world there is now at the edge of Imperial space, staring into the void, with all the dangers and oppostunities that it entails (which is, by the way, exactly how I envision my fan-designed Forge World ).     

 

Except that we get told often enough that there are whole plantes with only one task. Planets just to produce food, planets just to assemble machinery, planets just for people to live on, etc. Maybe planet systems are autonomous but many planets in the Imperium clearly aren't and are depending on the interstellar travel.

[Guest]

Bah, getting to far off topic.

 

Let us all get on subject about future releases and less about goveners and how planets operate.

[Karack Blackstone]

8.5 thoughts:

 

- New statistic, Resilience (from War of the Ring)

- Typical range, 1 through 6

- Points rebalance, it seems like sometimes GW has a fifth point free for every four spent (1, 2, 3, 4A, 4B, 5, 6, 7, 8A, 8B, etc.)

- The new books that slowly get supplements and updates that don't require a fully new Codex book per each release of new units seems ... sustainable, for now.

 

Resilience:

1 - Guard

2 - Astartes

3 - Land Speeder

4 - Rhino, Dreadnought

5 - Land Raider, Venerable Dreadnought?

6 - Spartan, Fellblade

+ - ?

 

Basically, a standard rank and file Guard with normal statline, Lasgun and Laspistol would be 4 points; an Astartes with 2 W, 2 R, the rest of the statline and a Combat Knife is 14.

All Chainswords gain AP-1, and cost +1 point per model so armed. So, the above Astartes replacing a Combat Knife with a Chainsword is 15 points each.

 

The problem would be the sheer amount of work needed to get this done.

GW is hiring, but no spots I could find list actual points and rules adjustments.

[chapter master 454]

The one thing I think that hasn't been explored and could be VERY fun to do is something along the lines of Gulliman falling to something he cannot avoid, something far more powerful than any chaos god or Aeldari deity. It is a corruption that isn't warp based. It is that of our own "sins".

A trite trope true but is something that isn't explored enough.

 

The one thing we always think about when we say "corrupt" is chaos. It always goes to chaos or some other form of such or maybe some esoteric xenos thing but never corruption such as Greed or Pride. It is a corruption that is far worse than other xenos or chaos threat due to the fact there is nothing to it but all we think is perfect: human nature. We pass off an ambitious general purely because he does it for the good of mankind yet he would sacrifice men just so he can have his glory, Khorne may have his skull throne but it is nothing compared to the throne that of which the Emperor sits both by his own hand and those of others and it only eclipses Khornes due to their denial of their actions. "our actions are just" "We are right" are all things humanity craves to be yet here it is, a sad twisted mockery of the thing they hate. The ecclesiarchy and their web of schemes by many a priest imitates that of Tzeentch yet nary a hit of warp taint found nor is there any to be found, Imperial Guardsmen sent to die in droves caring not if they die so long as they win is just another form of how Khorne works his mass: Both care not who dies so long as death occurs, the attempts to remain pure and avoid new things, to avoid progress a hallmark of the Imperium relates directly to Nurgle but instead of plagues and bile it is traditions and sacred oils that hold back the Imperium, Slannesh I'm reaching for (heh) but we point to the pleasure the Imperium takes in making Xenos suffer and all those around them, even servitors are make with a sadistic glee with no sympathy for them.

 

Corruption is not always chaos based. Gulliman cannot see his own downfall for it is his greatest asset: his pride. He struts arounds using it to not only bolster his charisma and tactical acumen but also cannot see the damage is wroughts. In a way...funny really how it may go...in that Gulliman is falling to the same trap the Emperor did.

 

Then again, Calgar can apparently tank having two hearts effectively destroyed and still be able to fight somehow so as far as interesting things go GW don't do that very often. To be honest, having Gulliman come back was shocking but the method was what sucked really. So many times GW have these awesome events then write it like a 5 year old "but den he got back up becauze he was SUPER awesome with his organ thing and was not dieing so easy"

[Guest Triszin]

I'd like to see the ghoul stars/halo zone things break out of containment.

 

And rakgol would be neat

[Panzer]

The one thing I think that hasn't been explored and could be VERY fun to do is something along the lines of Gulliman falling to something he cannot avoid, something far more powerful than any chaos god or Aeldari deity. It is a corruption that isn't warp based. It is that of our own "sins".

A trite trope true but is something that isn't explored enough.

 

The one thing we always think about when we say "corrupt" is chaos. It always goes to chaos or some other form of such or maybe some esoteric xenos thing but never corruption such as Greed or Pride. It is a corruption that is far worse than other xenos or chaos threat due to the fact there is nothing to it but all we think is perfect: human nature. We pass off an ambitious general purely because he does it for the good of mankind yet he would sacrifice men just so he can have his glory, Khorne may have his skull throne but it is nothing compared to the throne that of which the Emperor sits both by his own hand and those of others and it only eclipses Khornes due to their denial of their actions. "our actions are just" "We are right" are all things humanity craves to be yet here it is, a sad twisted mockery of the thing they hate. The ecclesiarchy and their web of schemes by many a priest imitates that of Tzeentch yet nary a hit of warp taint found nor is there any to be found, Imperial Guardsmen sent to die in droves caring not if they die so long as they win is just another form of how Khorne works his mass: Both care not who dies so long as death occurs, the attempts to remain pure and avoid new things, to avoid progress a hallmark of the Imperium relates directly to Nurgle but instead of plagues and bile it is traditions and sacred oils that hold back the Imperium, Slannesh I'm reaching for (heh) but we point to the pleasure the Imperium takes in making Xenos suffer and all those around them, even servitors are make with a sadistic glee with no sympathy for them.

 

Corruption is not always chaos based. Gulliman cannot see his own downfall for it is his greatest asset: his pride. He struts arounds using it to not only bolster his charisma and tactical acumen but also cannot see the damage is wroughts. In a way...funny really how it may go...in that Gulliman is falling to the same trap the Emperor did.

 

Then again, Calgar can apparently tank having two hearts effectively destroyed and still be able to fight somehow so as far as interesting things go GW don't do that very often. To be honest, having Gulliman come back was shocking but the method was what sucked really. So many times GW have these awesome events then write it like a 5 year old "but den he got back up becauze he was SUPER awesome with his organ thing and was not dieing so easy"

Actually that's one of the first things happening to Guilliman when he wakes up. Fulgrim being the biblical snake in eden trying to seduce Guilliman to fall to his own pride. Guilliman resists in the last moment but Fulgrim claims now that Guilliman is now unable to ever feel any sense of accomplishment ever again without having to fear to fall for chaos.

(not an exact summary, just as I remembered it).

[MegaVolt87]

We have Morty and big red running about, so either Russ or  Khan should come back to have a thunder dome with their brothers. Or maybe the Lion comes back as a foil for RG, with his own alternate ideas on how to run things. Plus a nice sub story about how they could also thunderdome by insulting each other how they would have been a bad choice for Warmaster in the good old days. Lorgar should definitely come back with RG running about. 

 

TLDR- Primarchs, its going to be another primarch with another big war for the storyline- it sells models. 

[Quantum]

I really hope to see the AdMech be expanded upon; right now we only have acces to part of their fighting strength: Various sects of Tech-Priests, Skitarii, Legio Cybernetica, Titans and knights, but that still leaves the Ordo Reductor, Centurio Ordinatus and Auxilla Myrmidon. And for a tech-obsessed faction they really should have more vehicles, including Flyers.

 

Also I hope they continue exploring minor factions, like lesser known xeno empires. Perhaps not as a full army, but for Kill Team. Like the Rak'Gol, Yu'vath constructs, Slaught, Abhuman factions, Ministorum cults and Frateris Militia, etc.