Future Directions (theory-crafting future release 40K)

[Guest]

We have Morty and big red running about, so either Russ or  Khan should come back to have a thunder dome with their brothers. Or maybe the Lion comes back as a foil for RG, with his own alternate ideas on how to run things. Plus a nice sub story about how they could also thunderdome by insulting each other how they would have been a bad choice for Warmaster in the good old days. Lorgar should definitely come back with RG running about. 

 

TLDR- Primarchs, its going to be another primarch with another big war for the storyline- it sells models.

 

Instead of Russ coming back to have a showdown with Magnus, i'd rather have Khan do it. Magnus stating how Khan knew the edict was bad, how Khan should join chaos, I trusted you, you were my psyker bff, blah blah. Then have Khan just tell Magnus that he was wreckless and arrogant about the warp.

 

Rather Russ come back as Odin/old man Russ and counter someone like Angron with cold fury.

[MegaVolt87]

@ Jarl Caldersson

 

Yes Khan fighting Magnus would be quite interesting in that context instead of predictable Russ for round 2. Old man Russ fighting Angorn would be like old man batman fighting that swole gang leader guy in the comics would be pretty sweet. Also all 30K ad mech stuff needs a PDF like the custodes got to port it to 40k, way too much product tied up to one era IMO. Demand is definitely there judging by the thirsty ad mech guys on our forum haha.  

[Quantum]

I would applaud such unexpected twits to the narrative, but I highly doubt they will come to pass. Now that GW has redefined the setting with the coming of the Great Rift and the Imperium Nihilus, they seem to be returning to the same routine and lazy formula that characterizes much of their writing:

 

Critical Imperial planet -> rebellion/insurrection/xeno incursion -> initially minor/contained/underestimated -> enemy activity gets out of contol -> Space Marines intervene -> rot at core of planet revealed -> massive Chaos/Xenos invasion -> phyrric victor for Imperium, hostiles achieve some enigmatic/long term goal -> planet will remain warzone for decades.

 

And many of the important characters fall exactly in their far too stereotypical niche: Guilliman immediately starts building a unified Imperium; Magnus vents wrath on Space Wolfs; Mortarion goes around spreading plague; Abaddon snarls about the irrelevance of his opposition and then achieves nothing that brings him closer to Terra.

 

I mean, for the Dark Gods' sake Abaddon, you have the bloody Planet Killer at you command! Blow up Vigilus and be done with it already! And why would you even want to make the Imperium Nihilus your own fiefdom? Terra is the fragging target, you two-dimensional, stereotypically, card-carrying, 'Next time, Gadget'-saying, exit stage left fleeing, Disney-Death causing, Joker Immunity having, static character villain!

[chapter master 454]

I would applaud such unexpected twits to the narrative, but I highly doubt they will come to pass. Now that GW has redefined the setting with the coming of the Great Rift and the Imperium Nihilus, they seem to be returning to the same routine and lazy formula that characterizes much of their writing:

 

Critical Imperial planet -> rebellion/insurrection/xeno incursion -> initially minor/contained/underestimated -> enemy activity gets out of contol -> Space Marines intervene -> rot at core of planet revealed -> massive Chaos/Xenos invasion -> phyrric victor for Imperium, hostiles achieve some enigmatic/long term goal -> planet will remain warzone for decades.

 

And many of the important characters fall exactly in their far too stereotypical niche: Guilliman immediately starts building a unified Imperium; Magnus vents wrath on Space Wolfs; Mortarion goes around spreading plague; Abaddon snarls about the irrelevance of his opposition and then achieves nothing that brings him closer to Terra.

 

I mean, for the Dark Gods' sake Abaddon, you have the bloody Planet Killer at you command! Blow up Vigilus and be done with it already! And why would you even want to make the Imperium Nihilus your own fiefdom? Terra is the fragging target, you two-dimensional, stereotypically, card-carrying, 'Next time, Gadget'-saying, Disney-Death causing, Joker Immunity having, static character villain!

 

Wouldn't be surprised if GW wrote it that he forgot that terra was on the TERRA side of the rift and was all confused about why it wasn't on the side that everyone talks about how those planets are cut off from terra. For all the lead up, He is still fail-badon because he couldn't be bothered to drop a quick 3 second burst of bolt fire into calgar before porting away instead of doing the dramatic exit.

 

However Magnus vs. Khan could be interesting. Khan feeling for Magnus, understanding his infuriation and is also himself furious are Russ for his hypocrisy but this isn't the answer. Sadly Khan never would know that it really was the only answer because it was flee to the warp or die and that strong sense of survival instinct he couldn't dismiss ether, its what let him survive in commarragh (lets just assume he's been there and comes out still pretty solid. He's a Primarch, he can tank anything if Calgar can have 2 heart effectively destroyed). The Duel between them being as much physical as it would be mental. I am of the opinion that it would be and is bad writing if all the Daemon Primarchs were all for the chaos route they took and what they became. For all the "there is no way back" for the traitor primarchs, with GW if they maintain that rule then I would be impressed because so far the writing has had a massive change in direction. Just wait, "Mary Sue 2 electric boogaloo" Cawl will appear during the duel from NOWHERE, walk up to Magnus, boop him on the head and BOOM has his soul back, is reverted from being a Daemon Primarch and all he says is "your welcome", tap dances away and we then, next campaign book get an explaination as to how it works and that is summed up as "dark age of technology timey-wimey machine thing + new imperium warp based soul breakthrough tech ONLY CAWL had stored away in hard drive 20547819 of his apparently limitless knowledge" and is the way we can redeem the daemon primarchs because reasons. Oh and Russ is Chaos now, SURPRISE THE FALLEN WERE ACTUALLY WULFEN!

 

But on a serious note (heh, where is that ever the case with future speculation), lore has gotten back to business as usual, the way people wanted it. Grim Dark, stagnant and nothing happening but meaningless wars and campaigns with a whole lot of hot air bragging by races. Business as usual.

Unless GW actually...you know...grow a pair and start killing characters. Not like they didn't in the past, Xavier got the chop and I am still asking where Cortez is. Oh right both got chopped so we could have more ultramarine characters that don't fit in ultramarines...still hyper salty on that front.

 

If any bets are on, there is no point putting big money down until one event actually does something meaningful. Seriously, if the Nachmund Gauntlet had been closed despite Calgar surviving it would of been huge and actually a good reason for Abbadon to just leave him half dead, humiliate the fallen chapter master with the grandest failure of all that he was trsuted with and despite his upgrades, still failed. But no, "narrowly" open is just GW speak for "yep, still WIDE open and very usable and millions of freighters will use it, no penalty"

[Brother Casman]

[snip]

I mean, for the Dark Gods' sake Abaddon, you have the bloody Planet Killer at you command! Blow up Vigilus and be done with it already! And why would you even want to make the Imperium Nihilus your own fiefdom? Terra is the fragging target, you two-dimensional, stereotypically, card-carrying, 'Next time, Gadget'-saying, Disney-Death causing, Joker Immunity having, static character villain!

Well...

The Nachmund Gauntlet has two ends, and while the Imperium won a Pyrrhic victory on Vigilus, the story tells us that the Planet Killer was en route to Sangua Terra at the other end... Destroy that, let the Imperium Nihilus collapse, and use it to recruit even more forces to overwhelm the Imperium Sanctus? Not a bad plan, if you're looking to bring down the whole thing.

 

I don't expect GW to come back to that particular plot point for a while - the designers talk a fair bit about seeding story hooks for future work.

[HandsWithLegs]

If any of the primarchs return I'm guessing that it's going to be the Lion. We've had far more movement with the Dark Angles storyline with the fallen on vigilus than we have with the space wolves story, and the white scars don't even have their own codex or enough unique flavor for the khan to return. 

[Ishagu]

I think the Lion is a likely prospect.

 

I also think he'll agree with Guilliman on almost everything and won't be any kind of foil for him, beyond wanting to be Lord Commander himself.

[NTaW]

I look forward to seeing how the Necrons fit in to the coming story. Noctilith is becoming more and more central a topic with its use seemingly integral in closing the rift. In the 2nd Mephiston book, set after the Devastation of Baal, the Necrons seem to be trying to make a coherent attempt to close the rift for their own purposes. It reinforces that Necrons have the technology to nullify the warp and hobble those with warp-drawn powers, and Vigilus Ablaze made a point of commenting that Necrons gained territory as a result of Imperials withdrawing to meet Abaddon's forces. I really hope that they are given a proper showing and not just written off as being mostly too crazy to be a genuine threat to anyone.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Lion returning to take command of a swath of the Imperium Nihilus in a darker version of the 500 Worlds would hands down be a great first step in undoing the damage done by Gathering Storm. Creating multiple versions of the Imperium under different returned Primarchs is really the only way to salvage the story of bringing the Primarchs back at all. 

[Ishagu]

Lion is no good at politics though. Wouldn't Russ be better for that?

 

To me the Lion is better as a straight up military commander.

[Marshal Rohr]

Russ will be good as the third head of the Triumvirate, controlling the least amount of territory, but leading a huge nomadic army. 

[RikuEru]

Russ will be good as the third head of the Triumvirate, controlling the least amount of territory, but leading a huge nomadic army.

Gentlemen... this should be our closing statement for the thread. Great idea.

 

Lion coordinating efforts to secure parts of Imperium Nihilus. Dark Angels, all the Unforgiven Chapters and other chapters who start to follow their ways.

Guilliman on Terra's side.

Leman Russ and his Space Wolves - and every violent lunatic he can find (Some Sisters, Black Templars, some Admech Expeditions, Crusades of displaced citizens, opportune Rogue Traders, etc.!?) going back and forth whenever small tunnels through the rift open, searching for means to stabilize it and fighting back Chaos along the way.

[Guest Triszin]

 

Russ will be good as the third head of the Triumvirate, controlling the least amount of territory, but leading a huge nomadic army.

Gentlemen... this should be our closing statement for the thread. Great idea.

 

Lion coordinating efforts to secure parts of Imperium Nihilus. Dark Angels, all the Unforgiven Chapters and other chapters who start to follow their ways.

Guilliman on Terra's side.

Leman Russ and his Space Wolves - and every violent lunatic he can find (Some Sisters, Black Templars, some Admech Expeditions, Crusades of displaced citizens, opportune Rogue Traders, etc.!?) going back and forth whenever small tunnels through the rift open, searching for means to stabilize it and fighting back Chaos along the way.

Russ and his band of lunatics.

 

Merily purging heretics and traitors and xenos

[PeteySödes]

 

Russ and his band of lunatics.

 

Merily purging heretics and traitors and xenos

 

 

Sign me up.

[HandsWithLegs]

I could see the lion being the more mobile primarch in this situation. With the Rock as his base he could move far more troops around much easier and cover many more planets

[Marshal Rohr]

One of the things I noticed the other day was the Caliban Sector isn't cut off from the Imperium Sanctus the way most of the Imperium Nihilus is. Being on the other side of the Eye of Terror, the Dark Angels could essentially build an empire that spans the frontier of Obscurus and Pacificus. 

[sarabando]

id like to see the empire fall abit more, have abadon invade terra have him tear the emperor from the throne, then have Russ arrive to save the day and help the survivors escape from Terra. A new Imperium is formed around Ultramar with guilliman making his new enlightened empire like the 30k vision while maybe the Lion or  Returned hawk boy form a more traditinal imperium we know focussing on the religous side then word comes that the emeperor has been reborn and now both sides are after the new star child esq thing.

[Guest]

Russ will be good as the third head of the Triumvirate, controlling the least amount of territory, but leading a huge nomadic army.

 

Guilliman leads Terra side if the rift. Controls strategic ops.

Lion leads Baal side of the rift. Controls strategic ops.

Russ controls the gauntlet ( I believe it's near Fenris) and most tactical ops (ie most of the actual fighting).

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Russ will be good as the third head of the Triumvirate, controlling the least amount of territory, but leading a huge nomadic army.

 

Guilliman leads Terra side if the rift. Controls strategic ops.

Lion leads Baal side of the rift. Controls strategic ops.

Russ controls the gauntlet ( I believe it's near Fenris) and most tactical ops (ie most of the actual fighting).

That would be a perfect fit.

[Lexington]

I would applaud such unexpected twits to the narrative, but I highly doubt they will come to pass. Now that GW has redefined the setting with the coming of the Great Rift and the Imperium Nihilus, they seem to be returning to the same routine and lazy formula that characterizes much of their writing:

 

I dunno, most of this stuff seems...pretty routine and formulaic to me. Further turning 40K into the family squabbles between a bunch of super-beings sounds like every other thing Netflix dumps into the binge-hole on a monthly basis.

[Ishagu]

It does sound very fan fiction.

 

GW get criticised for precisely this, yet the community just want to the most predictable and generic, fan pleasing developments.

 

(As long as it's not Guilliman related, because that's baaaad lol)

[Slave to Darkness]

I'd like to see the ghoul stars/halo zone things break out of containment.

 

And rakgol would be neat

I have wanted more on the Ghoul Stars since I read about them way back in the mists of time. 

[Karhedron]

I think the Lion is a likely prospect.

 

I also think he'll agree with Guilliman on almost everything and won't be any kind of foil for him, beyond wanting to be Lord Commander himself.

The impression I get from the HH novels is that they largely settled their rivalries by the end of Imperium Secundus. As to wanting to be Lord Commander, I can actually see Guilliman being quite happy with that arrangement. Currently he feels stretched too thin, he needs to be everywhere at once and doing everything at once. If the Lion returned and was made Warmaster Lord Commander, that would free Guilliman up to actually start rebuilding the Imperium rather than running around putting out bush fires.

[Felix Antipodes]

If any of the primarchs return I'm guessing that it's going to be the Lion. We've had far more movement with the Dark Angles storyline with the fallen on vigilus than we have with the space wolves story, and the white scars don't even have their own codex or enough unique flavor for the khan to return.

 

Sort of like the Thousand Sons and Death Guard were like before their recent codexes and upgrade?

[Karhedron]

 

If any of the primarchs return I'm guessing that it's going to be the Lion. We've had far more movement with the Dark Angles storyline with the fallen on vigilus than we have with the space wolves story, and the white scars don't even have their own codex or enough unique flavor for the khan to return.

Sort of like the Thousand Sons and Death Guard were like before their recent codexes and upgrade?

 

An army is only undeveloped until it gets developed.

 

Here is the crux though. It looks like GW are going with Primaris Marines as the way forward. That means White Scarish units like bikers are going to become increasingly obsolete (unless/until GW fleshes out the Primaris range more to actually replace some of the classic Marine units).

 

Ironically, the new Phobos units in Shadowspear would have been excellent choices to work with a Raven Guard army if they wanted to develop them into a fully-realised army. The recent fluff has shown that Corax is still active in the Eye of Terror and could quite readily return, particularly if he is still hunting Lorgar.