spacepup Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 So I am trying to come up with a pure tempestus army. I have played 600-1000 points of them so far and plan on building up to 2000 points list. And armour units are a tough nut to crack. My question for you other scion players is what is a valid anti armour choice minus dropping a command squad with melta guns in a jihad squad. Is the taurox prime with missile launcher w/autocannons, battle cannon w/autocannons the right choice? I know if I would ally up with regular guard toys I would be covered. But trying to be a mono list, straight 68th Deltic Lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrinNfool Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 If you are set on pure tempestus your options are limited as you have realized. Plasma squads can function ok for taking the last few wounds off vehicles of course too, so don't forget that. I am not a fan of melta command squads melta works fine in pairs of 2 just drop a couple squads in range good enough. Having 4 plasmas drop in rapid fire range with orders is a much bigger deal generally. Taurox primes w/ ML and ACs are your best bet I'd run 2 probably. A valk or 2 can assist in a pinch, and will help divert fire from your tauroxes. I have taken to allying in a lesser knight house (armigers) 2 warglaives 2 hellverins and have found that drastically improves the success rate of my scions, without feeling power gamey. kind of fits the aesthetic of the scions armor too since it looks kinda knightly baroque. 2 warglaives will distract from the ML/AC tauroxes and usually buy them another turn of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Any halfway decent player will make the suicide squad of melta scions hard to pull off effectively if he even halfway knows what scions can do. Taurox Prime w/TML and 2 ACs can bring respectable Anti-Armor at a good cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Try this: +++ Test list (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [112 PL, 13CP, 1999pts] +++ ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [56 PL, 8CP, 1070pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Battle-forged CP [3CP] Detachment CP [5CP] Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus + HQ + Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Tempestus Command Rod Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Tempestus Command Rod + Troops + Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 85pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 85pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 85pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol + Elites + Astropath [1 PL, 26pts]: Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 92pts] Tempestus Scion: Meltagun Tempestus Scion: Meltagun Tempestus Scion: Meltagun Tempestus Scion: Meltagun Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 80pts] Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun Tech-Priest Enginseer [2 PL, 30pts] + Flyer + Valkyries [8 PL, 117pts] Valkyrie: Hellstrike Missiles, Multi-laser + Dedicated Transport + Taurox Prime [6 PL, 130pts]: Taurox Missile Launcher, Two Autocannons Taurox Prime [6 PL, 130pts]: Taurox Missile Launcher, Two Autocannons Taurox Prime [6 PL, 120pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Autocannons ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [56 PL, 5CP, 929pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + Detachment CP [5CP] Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus + HQ + Lord Commissar [4 PL, 35pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Tempestus Command Rod + Troops + Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 73pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 73pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 73pts] 4x Scion Scion w/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol + Flyer + Vulture Gunship [22 PL, 380pts] Vulture Gunship: Heavy bolter, Twin Punisher Gatling Cannons Vulture Gunship: 2 Hellstrike Missiles, Heavy bolter, Twin lascannon + Dedicated Transport + Taurox Prime [6 PL, 130pts]: Taurox Missile Launcher, Two Autocannons Taurox Prime [6 PL, 120pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Autocannons Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expendable_Aquanaut Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 What are you taking for anti armor right now? The good thing about the missile launcher tauroxes is that their launchers also benefit from the stormtrooper doctrine. I always tend to forget that in game but it can really help if you remember. Unfortunately I haven't had great success with the missile launcher primes. They always seem like they would be great on paper but they never seem to perform well. I think the key is to have at least a couple of them. Also, bit of a wild card: you could try a vendetta or two. I know they are a bit over costed right now but the potential damage output of two of these things is pretty crazy. Might not be the the most competitive option but would be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAntilles Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I've had pretty good luck with my pure Tempestus army with a Vendetta, and a Lascannon/Hellstrike Vulture. Not to mention a metric butt load of overcharged plasma. Tanks don't tend to last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I'm doing the Vigilus detachment with 3 Valkyries and a Vulture. The output of plasma scions dropping from a Valkyrie next to a drop field commander and Yarrick is nuts... Hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s and 5s and 6s generate extra shots, hitting on 2s rerolling ones... That's 1.33 hits per initial shot (average)... you order to re-roll all wounds against monsters and vehichles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I add a castellan to my tempestus lists. If I want to be competitive, I take it from house raven with cawl's wrath. Another option is a baneblade variant, such as a shadowsword. More than one knight is an option, but you start running short of CP and actual tempestus. These are just anti tank options, but I find the castellan lists struggle against hordes - might need those vultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 I have only played 500-1000 point lists so far. In my 1000 pts list I had a Valk and 4 taurox primes, 1 battlecannon and 3 gatling variants. The Valk rarely did anything unless I hovered and even with nightshrouding it, it wasn't long for the tabletop. 1 Have 2 more taurox primes to put together and paint so I will probably do those in ML w/autocannons. Thanks for your input guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilyth Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Unfortunably, tempestus only is a rather harsh army building limitation. Special weapons, taurox and valk missile/lascannon are the only AT option for pure tempestus. The Taurox prime looks great, but unfortunably is not the most points efficient unit - especially when using the missile launcher (TMC).The mini-punisher variant with gatling cannon (TGC) provides nice anti infantry firepower, but has very short range.The battlecannon (TBC) has a statistical average of 3.5 shots, but the high variance of the roll makes it very swingy. I'd prefer the missile launcher over the TBC for anti tank. On the Valk, the multilaser is usually better for getting more shots than the lascannon. Hellstrike missiles can be usefull, being similar to two hunter killer missiles without single use limit. For special weapons, the plasmagun is of more use than the melter due to range. As is pointed out in the following post, pure tempestus can't take normal taurox, so ignore this spoilered text. Something to consider: 2 Taurox w/2 autocannons: 140 pts for 8 S7 shots, 20 wounds (can add 6 S3 shots via 2x heavy stubber) 1 Tauroxprime w/2 AC and TML: 130pts for 4 S7 and 2 S8 shots, 10 wounds (can add 3 S3 shots via 1x heavy stubber) Depending on how you value S8 vs S7 and the difference in wounds, using 2 taurox instead of one tauros prime could be a good alternative. If every other game is vs a tank company full of Leman Russ, you're probably better off with S8 guns. A mechanised list build using the basic taurox could look like the following: Battalion Tempestor Prime (rod) 45pts Lord Commisar (boltpistol) 31pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 493pts Battalion Tempestor Prime (rod) 45pts Tempestor Prime (rod) 45pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 507pts Battalion Lord Commisar (boltpistol) 31pts Lord Commisar (boltpistol) 31pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 5 scions w/2 plasma guns, taurox w/2 autocannons and heavy stubber 139pts 479pts total: 1479pts (and 3+5+5+5 = 18 CP. 51 infantry (with 51 wounds) and 9 vehicles (with 90 wounds) ) leftover: 521pts - enough to add more bodies, upgrade some tauroxes to primes and/or add flyers (e.g. w/the usual valk drop squad). tactics: You could just gunline and throw dakka with the base list, but it also allows for mobility, using the taurox as transports or mobile cover. edit:fixed number of shots for both taurox variants - was missing one AC.spoilered the armylist with normal tauroxes since the unit can't be taken with pure tempestus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrinNfool Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Unfortunably, tempestus only is a rather harsh army building limitation. The Taurox prime looks great, but unfortunably is not the most points efficient unit - especially when using the missile launcher (TMC). The mini-punisher variant with gatling cannon (TGC) provides nice anti infantry firepower, but has very short range. The battlecannon (TBC) has a statistical average of 3.5 shots, but the high variance of the roll makes it very swingy. I'd prefer the missile launcher over the TBC for anti tank. Something to consider: 2 Taurox w/autocannons: 140 pts for 4 S7 shots, 20 wounds (can add 6 S3 shots via 2x heavy stubber) 1 Tauroxprime w/AC and TML: 130pts for 2 S7 and 2 S8 shots, 10 wounds (can add 3 S3 shots via 1x heavy stubber) Depending on how you value S8 vs S7 and the difference in wounds, using 2 taurox instead of one tauros prime could be a good alternative. If every other game is vs a tank company full of Leman Russ, you're probably better off with S8 guns. Taurox Primes get 2 ACs plus the ML not 1, the main weapon is either the worse than punisher gatling, or the worse than russ battlecannon for 4 points less.. really? or the ML for 30, which actually isn't bad (8 points cheaper than a cyclone which its identical too) In addition you can't take normal tauroxes as scions or you lose your doctrine, sooooo ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup Posted March 9, 2019 Author Share Posted March 9, 2019 And that fact that the BS is 3+ instead of 4+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilyth Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Taurox Primes get 2 ACs plus the ML not 1, the main weapon is either the worse than punisher gatling, or the worse than russ battlecannon for 4 points less.. really? or the ML for 30, which actually isn't bad (8 points cheaper than a cyclone which its identical too) In addition you can't take normal tauroxes as scions or you lose your doctrine, sooooo ya. Number of shots has been fixed, thank you for pointing that out. *looks at and compares taurox and taurox prime datasheets* Oh... I see - the normal Taurox has <regiment>, which can't be replaced with tempestus. "You can/cannot take this vehicle when it does/doesn't have a turret and you're militarum/tempestus." That is a rather weird rules restriction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Missile / Autocannons primes are actually pretty good.. good price point, Transport is really a bonus. Don't forget they really benefit from the tempestus doctrine.. after they're done moving, as long as you're shooting at 24" away you've got a good chance at getting some extra shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 @zero88 I have not thought of that. Thanks for the heads up. And heres hoping for all those 6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfCorlesia Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Can also vouch for the Missile Launcher / Autocannon Taurox being a good choice. It'll deal with enemy armour, and can do a decent job at mopping up any infantry / lighter units too with it's variety of shots. Personally I tend to stick with the suicide command squad though, combined with the Tempestus Drop detachment and some lucky rolls off your Valkyie, you're unlikely to leave whatever you want dead standing afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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