The Number XIX

[Kua]

In short, the question is:

Do Raven Guard in 40k still use the XIX number, or was it just a leftover from before the unification with Corax on HH RG?

Is a roman number usually the company number?

 

And reversely, on a 30k RG marine, is it unusual to see a number indicating the company or whatever instead of the legion number, as oftentimes shown in the black book?

[Brother Quixote]

I can answer the 40k part of the question - I have not seen the XIX number used on any 40k Raven Guard in GW publications

 

According to the more recent (7/8th edition) codex entries Raven Guard have the chapter symbol on the left shoulder.

The Company number is indicated by the right pauldron's rim colour. Colours are the same as codex standard ultramarines ones.

Squad number is shown on the left knee.

Veterans and terminators have both arms & shoulders white, so no coloured rims.

 

As for 30k, you'll have to ask someone else.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

There is a picture of a 40K chapter banner for the RG that has XIX at the top, with their motto on the top scroll and Corax's name on the bottom scroll. As for on the armor, I don't think they still use the legion numerals since the chapters in M41 are so far removed that they'd be more like descendants or scions of the legion rather than the legion itself. Especially for legions who were split apart for the Second Founding. Roman numerals in 40K almost always refer to squad number rather than legion number or company, probably because company number is represented already by color.

 

I see at least two diagrams in the 30K rulebooks where the legionnaire has a number on their kneepad. Could be squad number rather than company number though but if it's appearing multiple times, it seems like it'd be common enough. XIX is generally found on the pauldrons, it'd be weird to have your legion Roman numerals on a kneepad or other small armor part unless you were someone fancy like the not-Uriel Ventris model or an officer.

[Race Bannon]

Ah, yet thr RG adopted the Arabic number style for squads in modern times.

 

The Roman numeral for banners is something all Primogenitor Chapters have maintained to this day. Frankly, it it's very likely you'll see 'XIX' on vehicles and/or Dreadnoughts if there is a shared history to the Heresy.

 

Although, officially, the Chapter number is not used, it's your army you will see the most, so use what makes sense to you ^_^

[Claws and Effect]

I use it for vehicles that could plausibly have been in use during the Crusade or the Heresy. And occasionally a character who is wearing truly ancient armor.

[Kua]

Alright… no XIX for Corvus armour marines then.

 

In the HH, according to the pics in the black books, everything seems to be rather up-scaled. Indeed there is a terminator with the XIX on its knee pad. Then there are chapter numerals in arabic. But not even a single company number, if I’m not mistaken. About squad numbers? Don’t make laugh!

 

Not sure if I should believe this impression.

 

 

(And don’t tell people it’s their army – they usually know, but it damages the illusion of of their decisions being of importance.)

[Race Bannon]

Wasn't Corvus armor used in the Heresy years?

[Kua]

It was, but it was developed after, well, Corvus Corax had the rule and the RG had their name.

 

Edit:

Which isn’t meaning it would not fit at all. But Mk-VI are rather usual here and don’t have this “ancient pre-heresy relic” claim a Mk-IV or even Mk-II would have.

[Claws and Effect]

Wasn't Corvus armor used in the Heresy years?

It was.

 

Dark Fury models are wearing it and they have the XIX on their right shoulder pads.

 

I don't have them to verify but I think the Mor Deythen do as well.

[seriade]

The reason you will see XIX on the armor is due to this

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/KQCXJTVNZ/60x-raven-19-shoulder-insignia-pack?optionId=65355246&li=marketplace

 

It is one of the ways to get around gw's trademark on the symbol.  One other minor thing regarding shoulder colors as you never want to go full smurf lol,  the old scheme was white for vets, green for tactial troops, red for assault, and yellow for heavy support on the rim of the right shoulder pad as a  more subtle way of distinguishing the troop types compared to say the blood angels and to make them more distinct from iron hands.  

[duz_]

Rule of Cool dictates you should use the XIX symbol for Corvus armour especially since Mor Deythan

 

But yes MkVI armour was developed and "tested" / depolyed very early in the heresy shortly after Corax returned back to Deliverance to start regenerating the chapter

The new Raptors were the ones that generally used the new armour to help over come any impetuousness due to their accelerated recruitment 

[thewarriorhunter]

With the addition of Primaris units now I could see the XIX being a mark of honor, showing that a marine/unit/vehicle/dread has been in service to the chapter for a long time. If I had painted my contemptor as RG it would have had Legion insignia on it since that's a HH era machine. I think Primaris would not have the XIX at all because they're such a new addition they have no right to wear the legion markings.

[Dracos]

.... except there is a good chance (?) some of those Primaris were initiates before the current Astarte were born

 

 

 

Got to love how almost anything is possible to rationalize in the 40k universe ;)

[thewarriorhunter]

.... except there is a good chance (?) some of those Primaris were initiates before the current Astarte were born

 

 

 

Got to love how almost anything is possible to rationalize in the 40k universe

 

Very true, and I guess we could chase that rabbit down it's never ending hole. My reasoning was they didn't show up in 'lore' until the Indomitus Crusade but if Cawl has been working on them that long it's possible they were around... but do we know if they saw action or were they in 'stasis' until the Indomitus Crusade? Maybe they'd be like replacements joining a combat unit... veterans have badges for campaigns that they fought in but the new guys don't get them because while they were enlisted they didn't actually serve in those events.

 

And yes, I do love how anything can be possible, one of the things I love about this hobby.

[Kua]

Primaris?

I don’ know no primaris!

 

Also, they are not part of anything that would qualify them for becoming venerable before they even enter the chapter halls.

[Jacques Corbin]

With the addition of Primaris units now I could see the XIX being a mark of honor, showing that a marine/unit/vehicle/dread has been in service to the chapter for a long time. If I had painted my contemptor as RG it would have had Legion insignia on it since that's a HH era machine. I think Primaris would not have the XIX at all because they're such a new addition they have no right to wear the legion markings.

Actually, if the new fluff is to be believed, and the Primaris were created after the heresy, and put into stasis for 10K, then I would think you would see XIX on their armor, moreso than on classic marines, because there were legions around before their big nap.

[thewarriorhunter]

 

With the addition of Primaris units now I could see the XIX being a mark of honor, showing that a marine/unit/vehicle/dread has been in service to the chapter for a long time. If I had painted my contemptor as RG it would have had Legion insignia on it since that's a HH era machine. I think Primaris would not have the XIX at all because they're such a new addition they have no right to wear the legion markings.

Actually, if the new fluff is to be believed, and the Primaris were created after the heresy, and put into stasis for 10K, then I would think you would see XIX on their armor, moreso than on classic marines, because there were legions around before their big nap.

 

 

I would argue that because they were put into stasis and never actually served until the Indomitous Crusade that they haven't earned the mark of honor that is XIX. However that's purely my opinion and anyone else can do as they please/believe.