dice4thedicegod Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Are hellblasters a good choice? I like plasma but it seems like a lot of points for a vulnerable unit (5 primaris, no cheap meat shields in unit). Do they need a transport to be effective? Also, it looks to me that the best load out is probably the cheapest - the rapid fire version. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Short answer: Hellyes they are a good choice! Long answer: yes, but you have to protect them like any other threatening Marine unit. Put them in a Repulsor or hide them out of line of sight until you get something in range to shoot at (ideally you want the target to be in rapid fire range). An Ancient with our relic banner nearby helps a lot as well. Rapid fire is imo the best loadout but if you are desperately lacking anti-tank you can try your luck with the Heavy variant as they are only a little bit worse than Lascannons (same amount of shots, same strength, better AP, but only 2 damage instead of the expected 3.5 of a Lascannon). Personally though I only use them because I got them in the Dark Imperium box. Ultimately I want to switch to Plasma Inceptors because d'uh Jump Packs. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog1996 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I’m unsure about them. Certainly they’re great for taking out infantry, but they still only fire one shot beyond 15 inches. A transport would help with that but the only one they can take is a Repulsor which is very expensive on top of the already high price you’re paying for the Hellblasters. Supercharging gives them the extra damage they need to threaten Terminators and other Primaris marines but you’ll need to stick a captain with them to save them from dying to rolls of a 1. What would you be wanting to use them for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 Yeah, I was thinking that to maximize their benefit, a repulsor and a captain would be needed. Why ch probably means running 10 rather than 5... heck, maybe throw in a leuitrnant at that point! (It becomes very expensive... but a “cheap” 5 man unit seems like a vulnerable use of 165 points,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I do fine with my 5 man unit in our casual and semi-competetive matches to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog1996 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Ultimately in this edition synergy is the most important thing. Every army is designed to work best with overlapping buffs etc, so needing the captain and the Repulsor isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially not in high points value games. However it can be an imposition in low point games where the ability of a unit to operate effectively by itself becomes much more valuable. My main objection to Hellblasters is that there are better options. For long range firepower you have Devastators and Centurions, whilst at close range you have Sternguards and Aggressors. For me Hellblasters seem like a compromise between the two extremes. Also don’t forget what army you’re playing, you need to leave room for our awesome CC units as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 No fan of them, they are quite expensive and really suffer from an meta with high invulns where there ap-4 doesn't help their dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 Well, just grabbed 5 cheapish on eBay, so hope they work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog1996 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Well, just grabbed 5 cheapish on eBay, so hope they work out! I hope they do a great job for you and bring glory to the Blood Angels' name! And hey, if they don't at least they weren't too expensive. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyros Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I think that for anti-infantry use, the assault plasma incinerator is probably better since you get 2 shots at 24" at the cost of one point of strength. Against most infantry units S6 should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I think that for anti-infantry use, the assault plasma incinerator is probably better since you get 2 shots at 24" at the cost of one point of strength. Against most infantry units S6 should be enough. Only against T3 and against those our lists usually already are choke full with S4 AP-1 and S5 AP-1. S8 is awesome as it lets you threaten literally everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzlrr Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Are hellblasters a good choice? I like plasma but it seems like a lot of points for a vulnerable unit (5 primaris, no cheap meat shields in unit). Do they need a transport to be effective? Also, it looks to me that the best load out is probably the cheapest - the rapid fire version. Any thoughts? My Friend Has a Primaris Deathball (smurfs tho) list which was a pain to counter initially and can still cause significant head-aches Hellblasters being his go to unit he has alot of those. theyre dodgy on their own but when you start overlapping all sorts of buff they become godly. Emperors relic banner, apothecary, chapter master & lieutenant. the ~inset colourful description here~ never bloody misses. If you shoot them and or kill them within 30" the banner gives them a free shot on a 3+ so even if you try to shoot them to death within 30" can see them doing more damage in your phase than their own I dislike them. but they also become Priority Number one to deal with due to their output, so prepare for them to be shot at if you use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Buddy of mine runs them with his ultramarines and swears by them. Mind you with rerollls to hit and to wound from Guilliman EVERYTHING becomes nasty Just rerolling hit rolls of 1 makes it alot easier to supercharge those plasma shots though. And with D2 theyre a great threat to Primaris marines and other multi wound targets. Heck even vehicles dont like beeing shot at by a whole unit of these guys Theyre just going to be a huge target so how do you protect them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkhel Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 ....Put them in a Repulsor or hide them out of line of sight until you get something in range to shoot at (ideally you want the target to be in rapid fire range). An Ancient with our relic banner nearby helps a lot as well.... :) Still works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulhunter1995 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I`ve very nearly been banned by my friends from bringing mine they're so good 10 man squad with captain, lieutenant, relic banner & sanguinary novaite walking round the battlefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I`ve very nearly been banned by my friends from bringing mine they're so good 10 man squad with captain, lieutenant, relic banner & sanguinary novaite walking round the battlefield Tbh I think other marines can do that as well, maybe even better. Why would they ban you for something they could be doing themselves as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxus Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 The relic banner is the key, and I hope that we will retain it in our next codex. It makes all the difference between us and other chapters since it has a disproportionate effect on D2 weaponry. You have to fire 69% more D2 shots at a W2 model to kill it on average, by my calculations. That implies that the effective damage reduction is close to 41% instead of the 33% that you would expect from a 5+++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I run a brigade list that, though it is my least favorite list, is super effective - it uses 3x5 hellblasters, relic, CPT and a deredeo with the pavise (5++ for units within 6 in). That is the core of the force that just marches up the field and mulches everything in front of it. Incredibly hard to kill, lots of dakka and fairly mobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothysaur Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I run a brigade list that, though it is my least favorite list, is super effective - it uses 3x5 hellblasters, relic, CPT and a deredeo with the pavise (5++ for units within 6 in). That is the core of the force that just marches up the field and mulches everything in front of it. Incredibly hard to kill, lots of dakka and fairly mobileThat sounds disgusting and I am absolutely going to try it out!If you don't mind me asking, what else do you run in that list to support the core? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Sure! Here is the list - ++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [118 PL, 2,000pts, 14CP] ++ + HQ + Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun Librarian Dreadnought [9 PL, 142pts]: 1. Quickening, 6. Wings of Sanguinus, Furioso fist, Storm bolter + Troops + Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts] . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun + Elites + Primaris Ancient [5 PL, 69pts]: Standard of Sacrifice Relic Deredeo Dreadnought [14 PL, 222pts]: Anvillus autocannon battery, Atomantic pavaise, Twin heavy bolter Vanguard Veteran Squad [16 PL, 204pts]: Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword . Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword . Veteran Sergeant: Power fist, Storm shield + Fast Attack + Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 71pts] . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 71pts] . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Suppressor Squad [4 PL, 105pts] . 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Grav-chute . Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute + Heavy Support + Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster, Plasma incinerator . Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol ++ Total: [118 PL, 14CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe The idea is to use forlorn on Slam, wings on the VanVets, wings the Libby dread and use the scouts and scout bikers to put a ton of forward pressure on the enemy. Scouts/bikes/suppressors take out screens and then the hellblaster core just marches up the field mopping up anything that’s left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothysaur Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Wow yeah, this list is just full aggressiveness and threats. I'll have to modify a bit due to lack of models, but I'll give a variation of this a shot. It looks super fun to play. Thanks a bunch for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulhunter1995 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I`ve very nearly been banned by my friends from bringing mine they're so good 10 man squad with captain, lieutenant, relic banner & sanguinary novaite walking round the battlefield Tbh I think other marines can do that as well, maybe even better. Why would they ban you for something they could be doing themselves as well? All the friends I play with don`t play Marines :) Necrons, Guard, eldar are their main forces and the amount of stuff my hellblasters have killed has slightly knarked them they only joke though so it's all good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Some further discussion of the Hellblaster Squad can be found here. Hope it helps :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dice4thedicegod Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just rerolling hit rolls of 1 makes it alot easier to supercharge those plasma shots though. And with D2 theyre a great threat to Primaris marines and other multi wound targets. Heck even vehicles dont like beeing shot at by a whole unit of these guys Honestly, with overloading I almost prefer just having reroll 1’s over full rerolls. With full rerolls, I’m going to be agonizing over whether I reroll a 2 and risk getting a 1 or just accept the miss (I.e. you go from 78% hit and 3% self-detonate to 89% hit and 6% self-detonate). Save points and mental torment by just paying for reroll-1 characters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathstrider Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I really rate them - I have two units that run alongside my intercessors so they can benefit from the standard of sacrifice and they do a lot of vehicle and monster killing. I normally go for the assault variant so I have the chose of whether to advance or back off and still get 2 shots - it gives me flexibility. They do need a Captain nearby, but I don't mind as it gives some CC deterrent for my intercessors and hellblasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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