Close Combat marine and Hellbrutes question

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Melee CSM are useful in one respect: if you absolutely must drive on objectives in the enemy's zone of control. They want to be up close because that's how they're geared, and they're OBSEC so they can take objectives from non-Troops easily. There's an added cost of course - they'll need a transport to get there - unless you're Alpha Legion or Renegades, both of which have ways to speed up their cross-board movement.

 

It's not a *great* use for them, I'll be the first to admit, but it's a use. I'd much rather use bolter-armed CSMs, especially lsince Bolter Discipline improves their lethality at long range.

[Panzer]

Even still, in close combat you can give noise marines a chainsword and pistol. They are 2 points more, but come with an extra attack over Chaos Marines. On top of this, they have Music of the Apocolypse which will grant them an extra pistol shot each in cc when they die, possibly 2 per if Death to the False Emperor triggers on the pistol shot, which you can improve the odds of with an Icon and prescience.

 

This means basicly at 2 points more per model, you get an extra attack on each model and 1-2 pistol shots on death.

 

While this is slightly better for a slight point increase, against imperium armies more base attacks has the potential to grow even greater with DttFE. In a 10 man squad, Chaos Marines are looking at a probable 28 attacks with Slaanesh icon after DttFE [9×2+3=21], [21×1.33=28]. In the same size squad, [9×3+4=31], [31×1.33=41], Chainsword Noise Marines are looking at a probable 41.

 

Yeah but at that point you have to ask yourself ... why not just take Chosen instead? Just give them a Chainaxe instead of Chainsword. It's less attacks but overall much better even at the slightly increased cost. ^^

[Doom Herald]

 

 

Even still, in close combat you can give noise marines a chainsword and pistol. They are 2 points more, but come with an extra attack over Chaos Marines. On top of this, they have Music of the Apocolypse which will grant them an extra pistol shot each in cc when they die, possibly 2 per if Death to the False Emperor triggers on the pistol shot, which you can improve the odds of with an Icon and prescience.

 

This means basicly at 2 points more per model, you get an extra attack on each model and 1-2 pistol shots on death.

 

While this is slightly better for a slight point increase, against imperium armies more base attacks has the potential to grow even greater with DttFE. In a 10 man squad, Chaos Marines are looking at a probable 28 attacks with Slaanesh icon after DttFE [9×2+3=21], [21×1.33=28]. In the same size squad, [9×3+4=31], [31×1.33=41], Chainsword Noise Marines are looking at a probable 41.

Yeah but at that point you have to ask yourself ... why not just take Chosen instead? Just give them a Chainaxe instead of Chainsword. It's less attacks but overall much better even at the slightly increased cost. ^^

At the point cost, using either for melee is a trade-off based on preference I think. Ultimately, the point is either is better than Chainsword/pistol Chaos Marines. I will point out though, that you have a chance to chuck grenades in another unit's face with Music of the Apocolypse. Since it allows you to use multiple models to throw grenades, depending on your range before charging, it does mean that models that die to overwatch get to throw a free krak or frag grenade into the enemy unit.

[Panzer]

 

 

Even still, in close combat you can give noise marines a chainsword and pistol. They are 2 points more, but come with an extra attack over Chaos Marines. On top of this, they have Music of the Apocolypse which will grant them an extra pistol shot each in cc when they die, possibly 2 per if Death to the False Emperor triggers on the pistol shot, which you can improve the odds of with an Icon and prescience.

 

This means basicly at 2 points more per model, you get an extra attack on each model and 1-2 pistol shots on death.

 

While this is slightly better for a slight point increase, against imperium armies more base attacks has the potential to grow even greater with DttFE. In a 10 man squad, Chaos Marines are looking at a probable 28 attacks with Slaanesh icon after DttFE [9×2+3=21], [21×1.33=28]. In the same size squad, [9×3+4=31], [31×1.33=41], Chainsword Noise Marines are looking at a probable 41.

Yeah but at that point you have to ask yourself ... why not just take Chosen instead? Just give them a Chainaxe instead of Chainsword. It's less attacks but overall much better even at the slightly increased cost. ^^

At the point cost, using either for melee is a trade-off based on preference I think. Ultimately, the point is either is better than Chainsword/pistol Chaos Marines. I will point out though, that you have a chance to chuck grenades in another unit's face with Music of the Apocolypse. Since it allows you to use multiple models to throw grenades, depending on your range before charging, it does mean that models that die to overwatch get to throw a free krak or frag grenade into the enemy unit.

 

Yeah, ultimately every unit is better at anything compared to regular Chaos Marines unfortunately.

The thing with Music of the Apocalypse and melee is that it doesn't allow you to shoot at a unit engaged in melee ... which would be yourself in that case. So, sure if there's a unit in grenade range nearby that isn't in melee you can throw grenades at those, however that's probably happening only rarely.

Against Overwatch though, it's fun and legit!

[Gordon Shumway]

Long story short, in my opinion troop Chaos Marines are not competitive as melee units. Helbrutes can work if you use them right.

Slight tangent, but if you are looking for ways to fill troop slots, the Blackstone Fortress datasheets let you use a 2 man Black Legionaire squad as a troop choice. Not set up for melee, but a cheap way to add a troop unit.

I don't believe they work that way. You need the lord to be Battleforged, and then they don't take up a troop slot.

[Doom Herald]

 

Long story short, in my opinion troop Chaos Marines are not competitive as melee units. Helbrutes can work if you use them right.

Slight tangent, but if you are looking for ways to fill troop slots, the Blackstone Fortress datasheets let you use a 2 man Black Legionaire squad as a troop choice. Not set up for melee, but a cheap way to add a troop unit.

I don't believe they work that way. You need the lord to be Battleforged, and then they don't take up a troop slot.

Check their Faction keywords, pretty sure they have BLACK LEGION.

 

Edit:

Just read through it again, you're right, I don't know how I missed that bit. On the note of melee though, Obsidius Mallux is the only chaos model with a thunderhammer.