FW Daemon Engines?

[Frostglaive]

With the rise of my new Black Legion army, plus with the Shadowspear fluff regarding daemon engines, I'm looking at picking up some of the FW daemon engine models. Ideally I want all vehicles in my army to not be any kind of "regular" tank (Land raiders, Rhinos, Predators, etc.). I want my army to look 100% daemonic. 

 

Ignoring the Nugle-based stuff (because I hate Nurgle), the main things I'm seeing right now are the Blood Slaughterers, Decimators, and Brass Scorpion. I am avoiding the Kytan solely because I hate how it looks. And I don't know what other kind of daemon engines there are.

 

How well do these guys perform? Worth their points, or the typical "over-costed under-performing" route GW forced most FW stuff to go? Any experience in-game with the models you can share? 

[Excessus]

I would probably go for the greater brass scorpion myself, because it's a beautiful model and it looks to do massive damage when you look at it's weapons, especially with a discordant lord or something closeby.

 

...but I have never used it so I don't really know about the viability... :)

[Tallarn Commander]

I've used 1 or 2 Blood Slaughterers since last summer, I usually just use 1 at a time unless I'm running pure World Eaters. They are a solid assault unit on par with Maulerfiends and Defilers in terms of fun and effectiveness. They cost a bit more than Maulerfiends or Defilers but they are also slightly killier so it makes sense.

Seven str 10, ap-3, damage3 attacks base (9 if you are fighting enemy infantry) can really put the hurt on a lot of enemy units. Plus, their points were dropped by 15 points in last December's Chapter Approved. As with any Chaos assault unit, they like to run up the board with friends like Rhinos full of zerkers or possessed, Maulerfiends, cc-oriented Helbrutes, DPs, and Defilers. If you run them with only 2 or 3 assault units they die. But if they are escorted by 5 or 6 friendly units then they have a decent chance of getting into assault.

Here is a photo of 1 of my 2 Defilers, BloodLady

And here is a photo of BloodLady getting blown away by Eldar shooting after she singlehandedly ripped a Wave Serpent from the sky back in January

Blood for the Blood God!

[Frostglaive]

I think I'm sold on the Blood Slaughterers. At the very minimum, they look phenomenal (and I love the paint scheme on yours, Tallarn Commander). And I found their rules as well. They don't look bad, I'd even go so far as to say they look pretty good for their points. 

 

The Brass Scorpion... yes, it's a gorgeous model. But 650pts? I'm all for Rule of Cool, but even that seems a bit pricey to me. I could run 2 Gallants for not much more points and probably get more killing power in close combat than a Scorpion. But then again, they are daemon engines, so they can benefit from Daemonforge... I don't know.

 

Anyone else have any input on the Decimators too? 

[Gederas]

I think I'm sold on the Blood Slaughterers. At the very minimum, they look phenomenal (and I love the paint scheme on yours, Tallarn Commander). And I found their rules as well. They don't look bad, I'd even go so far as to say they look pretty good for their points. 

 

The Brass Scorpion... yes, it's a gorgeous model. But 650pts? I'm all for Rule of Cool, but even that seems a bit pricey to me. I could run 2 Gallants for not much more points and probably get more killing power in close combat than a Scorpion. But then again, they are daemon engines, so they can benefit from Daemonforge... I don't know.

 

Anyone else have any input on the Decimators too? 

Can't comment on the Blood Slaughterers or Decimators, as I don't have either (yet), but I DO have a Brass Scorpion and played it in a 1750 tournament.

 

The Brass Scorpion... yes, it's a gorgeous model. But 650pts? I'm all for Rule of Cool, but even that seems a bit pricey to me. I could run 2 Gallants for not much more points and probably get more killing power in close combat than a Scorpion. But then again, they are daemon engines, so they can benefit from Daemonforge... I don't know.

Trust me... No, you won't. The only reason why you'd potentially get "more" is because you have 2 models instead of one. In terms of pure CC killing Power, the Brass Scorpion is to the Gallant like a Space Marine Smash Captain is to a Warp Talon.

 

If you're facing vehicle units or bigger things (Predators, Land Raiders, Knights, Primarchs, Greater Daemons, etc) a Brass Scorpion is GODLY. The fact that the thing can also one-round a Knight in melee is just golden. It's 650 points, yes. But those are 650 points of pure, chaotic anti-Knight goodness. The thing's shooting is NOTHING to sneeze at, with the 10 S6 AP-2 D2 shots from the Cannon (goodbye Primaris), D6 from the bombard that can one-shot a Predator in one round of shooting, even with a bad D6 shots because it's damage is 2D6 when against VEHICLE units, and those 2d6 AP-1 S 10/8/5 Flamer PISTOLS in melee means it's one mean shooty lobster.

 

Then there's the melee on it.

 

Unlike Knights, it gets its Invulnerable save DURING melee. And unlike Knights, it's melee weapons automatically wound Knights because the AP on it's claws is AP -4. At S 14/12/9 with it's claws, it's always wounding most Knights on a 3+ until it's final tier, and it's got 8/6/4 attacks, and damage 6? A Brass Scorpion, if in melee and has re-rolls, can kill a Knight Dominus in one turn, EASILY. That Knight Gallant simply implodes if a Brass Scorpion charges it, and if the Brass Scorpion is charged, you use the melee interrupt stratagem to make it mash the Knight.

 

Basically with my Brass Scorpion, if I know I'm facing Knights and I don't have much in the way of major anti-tank, I bite the bullet and deal. Because if you're bringing Lords of War, why can't I? Give it a cheap Chaos Lord, Exalted Champion for rerolls and Warpsmith/Helwright to heal it and watch as that monster rips through your opponent's lines.

 

The biggest drawback to the Brass Scorpion is the same as Knights: It only gets cover if more than half the model is obscured, and it's a VERY weirdly-shaped model (the way mine is built, it's 9 inches long, 6 inches wide and 8 inches tall), so actually getting it cover is difficult. So if you think you're not going first, try and stick it behind something. Because with a 12" Movement at top tier and a 3D6 charge range, it has an effective 30" melee threat range.

 

 

TL;DR: Yes, the Brass Scorpion is costly, $$ and points-wise. But, if the Brass Scorpion were cheaper in points, it'd be hilariously busted. The points are a perfect reflection of how dangerous the thing is if used right.

[Frostglaive]

Excuse me for a second. Need to pick my jaw up from off the floor.... Oh hey, there's a bit of drool there too...

 

Gederas, you sold me. I need a Brass Scorpion now. Not want, need.

[Gederas]

Excuse me for a second. Need to pick my jaw up from off the floor.... Oh hey, there's a bit of drool there too...

 

Gederas, you sold me. I need a Brass Scorpion now. Not want, need.

Glad to help shill one of my favorite FW models :lol:

 

The fact that it's rules are as good as it looks helps, a lot :lol:

[Mallios]

Also re: Scorpion vs Knights, don't forget that CSM buffs and strategems help the Scorpion, but not the knights.

[Bulwyf]

Decimators. Put the soul burners on them. My friend and regular opponent uses them and it is evil.

[Closet Skeleton]

Why would you ever fire the brass scorpion's pistols when it can shoot in melee thanks to its version of the titanic rule? Those are literally joke weapons the way its rules are written. Double checking its rules I see it has some crappy inferior version of the knight rules that only lets it fire when in combat with infantry but even then vehicles shouldn't last against it enough for those pistols to be needed.

 

Only time I fought a Brass Scorpion Mortarion hacked it apart easily. It just has so few wounds for its points. I don't see how a knight army won't be able to just shoot it to bits turn 1. Sure you can warptime it if you get first turn and guarantee a charge but you can't rely on getting first turn and knights can screen themselves with the guard they always bring.

[HeresyBeliever]

You can't warp time it 

The scorpion is a great model but i have found it to be a liability due to only having 20 wounds. 

 

Most armies have enough to take a knight down turn one if required. 

 

The LOS (model is meh) is better if you run it on cheap weapons. Can be warptimed and is better in combat as it will have more attacks by the time it gets there. 

The kytan is a viable option at 410 points now too. 

[Excessus]

Why would you ever fire the brass scorpion's pistols when it can shoot in melee thanks to its version of the titanic rule? Those are literally joke weapons the way its rules are written. Double checking its rules I see it has some crappy inferior version of the knight rules that only lets it fire when in combat with infantry but even then vehicles shouldn't last against it enough for those pistols to be needed.

 

There are other units that are non-infantry than vehicles...

 

 

Only time I fought a Brass Scorpion Mortarion hacked it apart easily. It just has so few wounds for its points. I don't see how a knight army won't be able to just shoot it to bits turn 1. Sure you can warptime it if you get first turn and guarantee a charge but you can't rely on getting first turn and knights can screen themselves with the guard they always bring.

 

So mortarion didn't get bogged down by screening units?

[Backslide]

3 bloodslaughters for me they always make a mess

 

I frequently use them alongside my slaneesh daemons it's a lovely combo

[Closet Skeleton]

So mortarion didn't get bogged down by screening units?

Not when two titanic daemon engines are charging forwards, no. I've brought Mortarion to at least 3 tournaments and never had him bogged down by screens.

I was the one who was screening. I think the Brass Scorpion failed to get through a whole unit of plague marines when it charged.

I think the Iron Warriors player went on to win 2/5 games despite just taking a bunch of models he had been building rather than optimizing anything.