Mere Mortals... look to Renegades?

[Frostglaive]

With the upcoming Vigilus II book and the updated Chaos Marine codex, it appears that Chaos Marine Cultists will be losing out on the Legion Traits with the new rule Mere Mortals. As far as I can tell, they still have Veterans of the Long War (which I still find incredibly odd, but I'll take it). They still have the Heretic Astartes keyword, so they can still access various stratagems. 

 

Maybe it's time to bring in the Renegades and Heretics instead for our chaff units?

 

My knowledge on R&H is very limited so please correct me wherever I'm wrong.

 

So we bring Renegades in a separate detachment instead of Astartes Cultists in a battalion. Okay. Downsides? We lose our stratagems and Marks (so no Tide of Traitors shenanigans), and leadership is now Uncertain Worth (so easier chance at failing morale). 

 

Upsides? We get Covenants instead of Marks. Cheaper troops (because honestly, do we really expect cultists to do much of anything? Let alone Militia. Mutants... ehh, they might do something). Cheaper battalions (25pt commander? Easy battalion). Rogue Psykers and Malefic Lords (not bad powers imo. And not expensive either). IMO better version of Guard Veterans in the form of Marauders (we can actually get a 4+ save like the old Vets used to!), a pre-nerfed Commissar for those hordes, and access to Imperial Guard vehicles (which imo is the best part here).

 

What do you guys think?

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, I often bring a small Renegades and Heretics "mercenary company" to aid my World Eaters or Night Lords

The benefits include:
-Since December Militia have been 1 point cheaper
-Unless you're playing Iron Warriors or Black Legion, morale is much better with Enforcers and/or command squads with voxes, militia voxes, and icons. My R&H militia and Mutant Rabble lose far fewer troopers to morale than my Night Lords Cultists.
-Covenant of Slaanesh helps you scurry your troopers around the board, snagging objectives and the like (although I usually make my DP or Chaos Lord my warlord so I can't take this).
-Renegades unlock all sorts of solid support units like Russes, a host of artillery, Marauders, Disciples, Ogryns in Chimeras, etc.

Plus whenever I bring Cultists in my Heretics armies I forget to use Tide of Traitors anyway. And I refuse to use Veterans of the Long War on Cultists because it's ridiculous from a fluff perspective.

A Renegade & Heretic Earthshaker completes a fire mission while protected by Night Lords bikers and a Daemon Prince

This pict was taken on Pharos IV, a Chaos Forge World that was under attack by Tyranids. The firepower of the Renegades Nostroman 9th Mercenary Company combined with the mobility of the 24th Night Lords Terror Claw to destroy the Xenos invaders.

[Nemerax]

I would have rather removed the stratagem too and move Cultists back to 4 Points. May be they still do that.

 

Anyway I can agree on the Malefic Lord, even if overpriced, these guys (in my case girls, warhammer sorceress), are dealing out their points in damage easily in each game. A hulked one took down a Custodes Captain on bike, who was the warlord.

I feel like Leman Russ do not do anything or completely wreck havoc through to their many rolls. The Thuddgun is the best artillery right now.

Marauders on the other hand are amazing. Also I can recommend the Macharius Vulcan if you want a Super Heavy.

For my part I use them with my Renegade Knights for really good effect.

[Excessus]

We don't know much about that rule in Vigilus, we'll have to wait and see.

 

...though R&H are always cool! :)

[Nemerax]

If I understood winters correctly in the Update Video about Codex Chaos Space Marines, the Noctilith Crown gives a 5++ to ANY Chaos unit wholly within 6" it for 100 points. Each round it increases its aura by 3" up to 12". This would mean our tanks are affected too, Leman Russ or Baneblade with an Invulnerable save. Imagine that.

Dark Eldar players will not like this or any other army with high AP weapons. 

 

Yes I know it can be shot, but with T8 W14 and having the save itself its quite sturdy and for 100 points? Why not two? Thinking of it I get lots of ideas for it. Does my opponent really want to waste his Lascannons on it? Most tournament boards I know even allow to hide bigger stuff completely.

 

The Loyalist have nothing comparable to this. It sounds very strong to have such a save army wide, especially since a lot of our troopers lack good saves too. We could easily place our entire army within it and profit from the save? That is what I call dug in.