Vorenus Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 By now everyone has probably seen the new Chaos terrain piece, the Noctilith Crown. I have to say that I really, really love the look of the model. However, based on the rules (leaked online at various sites), I am struggling to think of when I would actually field this in a battle. For one thing, since its a Fortification, it takes a detachment slot, meaning many folks who play in ITC-style games will be hard-pressed to take it as one of your very limited number of detachments. Also, although it grants a 5++ Invulnerable save to models wholly within 6" of the Noctilith Crown (which expands to 9" in turn 2 and 12" in turn 3), the Crown itself is not particularly durable, with only 14 Wounds and a 3+ Save (although it is Toughness 8, which is nice). So I expect you will rarely actually get the 12" bubble as it will usually be destroyed before turn 3. And the kicker is that it could explode and inflict mortal wounds on the models that are trying to stay near it to get the Invulnerable saves--so it's a risky strategy in the first place. It could have some utility providing an Invulnerable save to long-range Havocs sitting in the backfield, but now that they can move and shoot with no penalty to hit I'm not sure you would want them to sit back there. Also, the new Dark Apostle can give a unit a 5++ using one of his Chaos invocations. So it just feels like the Noctilith Crown is a missed opportunity that just doesn't work all that well on the tabletop. I am prepared to be convinced otherwise, however, as I really, really like the model (as I said) and I would love an excuse to add it to my collection. I don't think I can justify getting it right now, though, when my wallet is already going to be bleeding from getting all of the other Chaos goodies. Ultimately, I'm very happy with the new models and I am going to burn through money like Command Points picking up so many of these new, lovely kits. What does everyone else think? Am I wrong? Is the Noctilith Crown actually better on the tabletop than I think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I agree with you, the crown doesn't seem like a very competitive choice. Part of the problem is we already have a lot of units with a +5 invul save, and in particular a backfield unit that might benefit from hanging near the crown like obliterators already get the invul. I was hoping the crown would buff invul saves by 1 if the unit already had an invul, but looks like no luck there. The reroll psychic tests honestly seems like the stronger ability, as well as forcing perils on enemy psykers. If you're taking a lot of psykers, then I think the crown becomes a lot more useful. If you don't have a bunch of psykers that would benefit from it though, I think I'd take a pass on it. Certainly a nice model though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 That 5++ is more applicable to Havocs with a MoP involved. Cursed Earth improves I-saves around the MoP, so your Havocs are now 4++. Add a Tzeentch Sorcerer with Weaver of Fates and you're up to a 3++ save. Also, if the Crown's aura applies to vehicles, then Helbrutes and Predators get a 5++ instead of a 6+ against lascannons, which is not shabby. I'll be running it with my Alphas so my firebase units will be base -1 to be hit and a 5++ save on top of armor and cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 That 5++ is more applicable to Havocs with a MoP involved. Cursed Earth improves I-saves around the MoP, so your Havocs are now 4++. Add a Tzeentch Sorcerer with Weaver of Fates and you're up to a 3++ save. Also, if the Crown's aura applies to vehicles, then Helbrutes and Predators get a 5++ instead of a 6+ against lascannons, which is not shabby. I'll be running it with my Alphas so my firebase units will be base -1 to be hit and a 5++ save on top of armor and cover. Havocs don’t have the Daemon Keyword now, or do they? If so....there’s so much that just opened up for using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 They don't as far as I know, so they benefit a fair amount from the crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 You could honestly get the same effect for your Havocs (and Helbrutes, come to that) with a Dark Apostle Prayer and Mark of Tzeentch Sorc to cast Weaver of Fates. And, as pointed out above, since they lack the Daemon keyword, 4++ is the best you're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 It looks cool but doesn't seem very useful to me. Maybe if you had a gunline? Also it uses up a detachment since in my experience most people use the detachment limit, tournament game or otherwise. Now if it had been like +1 to invulnerable save or 6+ invuln if you had none could have been great with a daemon engine gunline, Lord Discordant and MoP. But as with a lot of things seems like GW just misses the mark for what would genuinely be useful. They seem to want Chaos to be a melee type of army, wanting to get up close and personal, yet give a terrain piece that encourages static gunlines. Very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 It's a target. That's a good thing. Draw fire from your Maulerfiends crashing their lines in order to drop the 5++ off your Havocs that are getting even buffier from the Sorcerer giving them Prescience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Assuming you are not playing in a game that restricts you to only three detachments. Since it's a fortification, it takes a whole detachment on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Definitely not competitive. The model looks awesome though so I'll be buying it regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I have an uncontrollable urge to put a plasma globe in the center of it. Or barring that making it into an LED-lit infinity mirror. It just screams portal to me. And no, not in a Stargate sorta' way; I see the similarity but I wasn't a fan of the show. Hard to distance it from such a similar silhouette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah, I'm struggling to see a real purpose to this model, other than looking awesome. A 5++ aura is fine (and works best with vehicles, since you only need to have a small part of the vehicle within range), but for 100pts the added survivability doesn't really pay for itself unless you have lots of things (or one big thing) crammed into the aura. Rerolls for psychic tests (and penalties to enemy psykers) is reasonable if you have plenty of psykers, but still not sure if it's worth it. If it made the psychic powers stronger, rather than just more reliable, then maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 From what I've heard, the aura is "wholely within" to give the save, making it harder for vehicles to fit, especially on the 1st turn. But I agree with your conclusions - probably not worth actually spending the points for. I'll probably get one eventually, as its a cool model that will look great with my army, but I don't see actually fielding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 From what I've heard, the aura is "wholely within" to give the save, making it harder for vehicles to fit, especially on the 1st turn. But I agree with your conclusions - probably not worth actually spending the points for. I'll probably get one eventually, as its a cool model that will look great with my army, but I don't see actually fielding it. Just means every model in unit needs to be a tiny bit within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 That's not how I would interpret that term - is there any rules guidance as to one interpretation over another? By your interpretation, missions that require armies to be placed "wholly within" a deployment zone means that models can be placed mostly out of the deployment zone so long as a part of each of their (or their base, if they have bases) is within? That doesn't seem right to me. That said, the explanation for being "wholly within" terrain only requires that part of each model be in terrain. I suspect that GW has been inconsistent on this point, and I'm not sure what the intended meaning for these type of "auras" is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Honestly, I'm just glad that it's a faction terrain piece that doesn't require a unit to do nothing for a whole turn just to use its mediocre effect. Maybe GW finally gets the hang on writing rules for 40k pieces (as the AoS ones are much better). From what I've heard, the aura is "wholely within" to give the save, making it harder for vehicles to fit, especially on the 1st turn. But I agree with your conclusions - probably not worth actually spending the points for. I'll probably get one eventually, as its a cool model that will look great with my army, but I don't see actually fielding it. Just means every model in unit needs to be a tiny bit within. That's wrong. Wholly within means that no part of any models base from that unit can be outside of the named distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yep, you're right, I misremembered. "Wholly within" means every part of the unit/model must be within. That's not so great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yeah. I mean I do see some merit if you had a gunline type army but its short range (even if it increases over time) coupled with wholly within and taking up a detachment means I don't see a huge use for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Helbrutes will enjoy it. They're small enough based that they should fit fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Honestly, I'm just glad that it's a faction terrain piece that doesn't require a unit to do nothing for a whole turn just to use its mediocre effect. Maybe GW finally gets the hang on writing rules for 40k pieces (as the AoS ones are much better). From what I've heard, the aura is "wholely within" to give the save, making it harder for vehicles to fit, especially on the 1st turn. But I agree with your conclusions - probably not worth actually spending the points for. I'll probably get one eventually, as its a cool model that will look great with my army, but I don't see actually fielding it. Just means every model in unit needs to be a tiny bit within. That's wrong. Wholly within means that no part of any models base from that unit can be outside of the named distance. Oops sorry, I think I misread what you wrote the first time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Thousand Sons are one of the armies I can see using this. When we build gunlines, we include numerous psykers for buffs and wound regen via Temporal Manipulation. We also have a situation where everything in our army has invuln saves......except the Tanks and Helbrutes often used in our firebases. Giving a 5++ to the big stuff in the firebase, providing an LOS hiding spot for some buff characters, and allowing rerolls of Psychic Tests for things like Prescience, Flickering Flames, Gaze of Fate, and Temporal Manipulation sounds like a winning combo to me, though it needs testing. Definitely going to be getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Thousand Sons are one of the armies I can see using this. When we build gunlines, we include numerous psykers for buffs and wound regen via Temporal Manipulation. We also have a situation where everything in our army has invuln saves......except the Tanks and Helbrutes often used in our firebases. Giving a 5++ to the big stuff in the firebase, providing an LOS hiding spot for some buff characters, and allowing rerolls of Psychic Tests for things like Prescience, Flickering Flames, Gaze of Fate, and Temporal Manipulation sounds like a winning combo to me, though it needs testing. Definitely going to be getting one. You're right. Good point... but can TS take this unit? I will say I keep revisiting the model and thinking it would be so cool to use. It would have been huge for me if the top of it had a scaffolding of some sort for a squad or two of Havocs to perch on. The Fortification that came in the Knights Codex has that element I would perch all manner of AdMech on it. On a side note I still really like taking a Landraider in fun games, and I was wondering if it wouldn't work to take one of these stargate things and park 2 landraiders right next to it for T1. It could be really stupid but the idea of frustrating my astra/tau etc opponents with a pair of 5++ Landraiders seems fun. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 TS can take the Crown. It's a Fortification and its only faction is CHAOS. You are allowed to take two detachments in Matched Play that only have "CHAOS" in common if one of them is a Fortification Network. Pg. 47 of Chapter Approved. The bonuses apply to CHAOS units. Totally legit. As for the Land Raiders, don't forget to give one Glamour of Tzeentch and the other Weaver of Fates for maximum annoyance. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 A hellforged Deredeo dreadnought can give nearby units an invulnerable save AND shoot things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 True, the Deredeo can do that. It can't help sorcerers around it reroll psychic tests though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.