Karhedron Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Plenty of people have commented favourably on Vanguard Veterans following the CA2018 price drop. I have been trying to think of good ways to leverage their flexibility to cover some of our tricky scenarios without breaking the bank. This is my working concept. A 100 point unit that can do a bit of everything well enough to be useful for in several scenarios. Seargent with Jump Pack, Storm Shield and Power Fist 2 Veterans with Jump Pack, Storm Shield and Chainsword 2 Veterans with Jump Pack and dual Chainsword. I would normally run a couple of these squads spaced out as mobile screens for the bulk of the army. Against assault-heavy armies, they are designed to take the hit in place of our more powerful units, giving us a chance to respond. The classic Bloodletter bomb is downright nasty but a cheap screening unit with 3 Storm shields will soak quite a few hits. Against big monsters, those Storm Shields will be even better and can keep anything short of a Blood Thirster pinned for a turn to allow Captain Smash (or more firepower) to be brought to bear. Against horde armies, each squad gets 17 attacks with Red Thirst which should kill 8-10 GEQs on the charge. That makes them decent at clearing chaff screens so that our heavier hitters can get to valuable targets. The power fist is a luxury to give the squad some "punch" and allow it to threaten vehicle targets. The drop to 9 points has made the PF more effective for its points than a Hammer although you can still substitute a hammer if you want a bit of extra reliability. Alternatively, save a few more points and run the Searg with just a power sword (or chainsword). I quite like the idea of a couple of these units. They are not powerhouses but they are pretty cheap and can fulfil multiple roles depending on the opponent. They are also fast which makes them handy for snagging objectives without diverting your main force. What do people think? Have I created a "goldilocks" unit that balances capability with price or have I created an unfocused mess that will fail to achieve much before being gunned down, eaten or ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I prefer company veterans if you are just sticking to 5 bodies. For a 2 point premium you get the bodyguard rule (very nice with all the new snipers being released) and the ability to take storm bolters. For 121 points you can get a sarge with a fist and 5 storm bolters, 4 SS. This gives them much more chaff clearing. Dropping them in cover gives them a 2+/3++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I'm honestly under the belief that other than our characters...the Blood Angels VV may just be the best unit we have in our codex... The unit just has so much customization and is well pointed per model with options that you can configure to basically fulfill any roll you need it to. The unit can even take out Imperial knights if kitted properly. I've been running 2 units of them. They blow my expectations right out of the water when flying around with Captain Smash and a Priest. Hell even in a landraider which took a nice points drop foot slogging it can be a great distraction carnifex that your opponent cannot ignore and has to poor fire into it while the rest of your army moves into position or grabs objectives. Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I wouldn't call that unit a swiss army knife as it can't really deal with tougher targets but it's a nice and cheap unit that can take a hit and deal with chaff for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I wouldn't call that unit a swiss army knife as it can't really deal with tougher targets but it's a nice and cheap unit that can take a hit and deal with chaff for sure. They can all get hammers- i think that's plenty enough to deal with tougher targets. It's just mad expensive. I'm honestly under the belief that other than our characters...the Blood Angels VV may just be the best unit we have in our codex... The unit just has so much customization and is well pointed per model with options that you can configure to basically fulfill any roll you need it to. The unit can even take out Imperial knights if kitted properly. I've been running 2 units of them. They blow my expectations right out of the water when flying around with Captain Smash and a Priest. Hell even in a landraider which took a nice points drop foot slogging it can be a great distraction carnifex that your opponent cannot ignore and has to poor fire into it while the rest of your army moves into position or grabs objectives. Krash Can you share a few builds? I've been running 8 man squads religiously now, and they underperform ALL the time. They serve their role, but, fail to really change the game, just help steer its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I wouldn't call that unit a swiss army knife as it can't really deal with tougher targets but it's a nice and cheap unit that can take a hit and deal with chaff for sure. They can all get hammers- i think that's plenty enough to deal with tougher targets. It's just mad expensive. If they get hammers they won't be 100p anymore so I assumed this thread is about that one specific loadout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I see what you were referring to!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash144 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 After some testing I still would recommend DC over VanVets. The extra attack on the charge is huge plus they have amazing synergy with Lemmy. Rerolling 3d6 charges nearly guarantees you to get in. Sure you cant take those sweet 2pts stormshields, but even with those the Vets will die fairly easy to things like mass bolters, tau rifles, shuriken weapons etc. The key to surving is taking hostages, for which you need an sufficient unit size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 If they get hammers they won't be 100p anymore so I assumed this thread is about that one specific loadout. Doesn't have to be. 100 points was just a nice round number for my "opening gambit". In was thinking in terms of cheap-ish and flexible builds as I feel that is where the strength of VVs lies but all opinions are welcome. If I am looking for a big hammer unit, I normally run DC and SG but that is just me. I prefer company veterans if you are just sticking to 5 bodies. For a 2 point premium you get the bodyguard rule (very nice with all the new snipers being released) and the ability to take storm bolters. For 121 points you can get a sarge with a fist and 5 storm bolters, 4 SS. This gives them much more chaff clearing. Dropping them in cover gives them a 2+/3++. Hmm, that is a compelling argument, particularly with the Bolter Discipline rule. A bit more expensive but potentially worthwhile. If I were running that buid, I might be tempted to drop the Fist since that build mostly does damage at range and I would only see it heading into melee if it needed to tie up a big monster for a round or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 The 2pt storm shield is probably the strongest thing in the marine codex right now. It just trivialises so much enemy firepower it's almost silly. Makes marines feel like marines again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 If they get hammers they won't be 100p anymore so I assumed this thread is about that one specific loadout. Doesn't have to be. 100 points was just a nice round number for my "opening gambit". In was thinking in terms of cheap-ish and flexible builds as I feel that is where the strength of VVs lies but all opinions are welcome. If I am looking for a big hammer unit, I normally run DC and SG but that is just me. I see. In that case I'd agree that the unit is pretty versatile but the true swiss army unit would be the Company Veterans. Stormbolter > an additional Chainsword any time. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 I see. In that case I'd agree that the unit is pretty versatile but the true swiss army unit would be the Company Veterans. Stormbolter > an additional Chainsword any time. ^^ I can see the appeal of Storm Bolters, particularly with Bolter Discipline. My only hesitation with Honour Guard is the fact that the Jump Pack version seem to be Index only now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 You can just easily magnetize the veterans jump packs. I know it can be a pain for some people but its totally worth it. You can still use the index for them. Much like the Sanguinary priest with jump pack etc. Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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