Chaos Space Marine help.

[Sume]

Hello.

 

While no stranger to Bolter and Chainsword.  I am pretty much a stranger to Chaos space marines.  I havent played them since 3rd edition and then it was black legion and some dabbling in Emperors Children.  Which leaves me a lose here.  I am trying to decide on a fluffy approach to adding about 800 points of marines to my Slaanesh demons.  I have considered Black Legion, Emperors Children and Alpha Legion.

 

Pros I see of some of these legions are:

Black Legion, well I can take almost anything I want and it will be fluffy.  I would like to stay with Slaanesh marks so I would paint them up to reflect it.

Alpha Legion, that -1 to hit.  Would make havocs and even a ranged kited hellbrute tough,

Emperors Children, sonic weaponry is awesome, blast master hellbrute.  

 

The cons I see:

Alpha Legion, dont seem mark of Slaanesh is to fluffy with these guys.

Emperor's Children, some choices like raptors dont seem fluffy to me.

Black Legion, not that I can think of outside of fluff.

 

My ultimate goal here is to have a fire support base for a bunch of demonettes, keeper of secerts, 2 soul grinders, fiends of slaanesh and seekers of slaanesh.  Possibly with some demon princes but the CSM ones seem so much more effective.  

 

Any help really be appreciated.  I am not looking for anything thats over the top as this is something I plan to take to a more causal fluffy event later this year in August.  

[Marshal Loss]

Given that you're big on both Slaanesh and the fluff, I'd avoid Alpha Legion entirely, because in this context their only perk is their competitive rules. Normally I'd say don't go for EC, because the (admittedly based on conjecture) consensus is that they will receive new models and a dedicated codex in the future. But we don't know how long that will take, and because you're only doing 800 points and not a giant 2000+ army, you could do EC if you wanted. There is even art of an EC Raptor in the CSM Codex, so you don't need to feel bad about Raptors in that scheme if that's a key factor.

 

Black Legion could be a lot of fun because their lore is amazing (read Talon of Horus & Black Legion by ADB, and look up the "Shrieking Masquerade" & "Children of Torment") and you can still theme the warband as followers of Slaanesh while still staying reasonably competitive with a wide range of units. They also received a huge rules dump in Vigilus Ablaze and have more relics/traits, etc, than any other Legion. So my $0.02: do the Black Legion. Or at the very least read Talon of Horus before you make your decision.

[Panzer]

There's also the Flawless Host for Slaanesh players now.

[Sume]

I am not sure I saw the Flawless host.  I do agree Alpha Legion and to that extend Nightlords don't meet the fluff for me.  I am really leaning towards Black Legion.  Its I am so tempted by the hellbrutes with sonic weaponry though.  Only way to get that is to go EC.  I know at this event last year there was a few EC armies.  So I am not wanting to be the next one you know.  I do have upwards before points dropped of 3000 points of Slaanesh demons.  This year new additions are the soul grinders and some of the new fiends.  Just trying to find a way to take the models I like a lot.

[Panzer]

The Flawless Host is a new addition with the range refresh. It's one of the Renegade warbands with its own rules. Their Legion Trait is basically Death to the False Emperor, except that it works against every enemy and does NOT replace the actual DttFE rule (so you'd get two additional hits on 6s against units with Imperium keyword). Give your unit +1 to hit via psychic power and it'll be on a 5+, with Slaanesh Icon on a 4+ against Imperium. Additionally they have a warlord trait that gives your warlord whenever he gains additional attacks 3 instead of just 1, so 6 instead of 2 against Imperium units.

 

Note that it's not a clear decision though since it's a Renegade warband so they don't have access to the VotLW Stratagem and since they aren't Emperor's Children they don't get Noise Marines as Troops and don't get access to the Sonic Helbrute. Nothing stopping you from building an army with a mix of Emperor's Children and Flawless Host though!

[Ghorgul]

If normal chaos space marines could have both extra melee weapon and bolter they would be just perfect for you. 10x3 Flawless host CSMs with extra melee weapons and 1/2 Reaper Chaincannons in each unit. Very devastating firepower within 24" of enemy and good melee ability. Why this is not allowed, no one knows, I guess GW wants normal CSMs to be bad in melee.

[MegaVolt87]

Judging by what you are saying, what would actually fit what you are after would be the Word Bearers. However, as far as I can tell they don't look strong rules wise- I could be wrong though about that. 

[Sume]

Oh I remember this one now.  I think I over looked the flawless hope.  

 

I didnt even consider Word Bearers.  A lot of my chaos marine fluff background comes from 3rd edition.  I ordered the new book to see what they changed.  I shall have to look at Word Bearers also.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I just want to point out that regardless of Legionary bloodline, each warband will operate differently. My Alpha Legion army uses all four marks to maximize their efficiency...and if you think about it, that's a very Alpharius-y thing to do.

 

There's always room for another Harrow around here.

[undivided_apostle]

If I remember correctly the Lucius novel describes his warband as a few noise marines and 30 raptors. So you could fluff justify it.

 

I think your better off with black legion because they are more flexible and the paint scheme will help the daemons stand out.

[Sume]

I appreciate the help. I looked into the background for some of the legion and rengades I was not to familiar with.

 

The final census I think I am going to do is black legion. I found some art for one that incorporated some emperor's children look into the black legion and I really liked it.

 

Now to figure out what I want for about 800 points. Thinking maybe three squads of the new havocs with the rotary cannon. Toughness 5 seems really good. That or maybe take 5 - 6 man bike squads with as many flamers and Combi flamers I can. A lot of choices. Really looking for fire support so I can hopefully connect with big squads of demonettes, keeper of secrets and soul grinders. I'll start a paint blog for the chaos marine part and add a link for the one for my slaanesh demons that I started last year.

[Sception]

The old days of atheist, anti-chaos chaos legions are mostly behind us. While there are a few hold outs within the lore, those are individual outliers that do not reflect the character of their legions as a whole. These days, 'undivided' legions means 'take whatever mark you want on a unit by unit basis', it doesnt mean 'never take any mark'.

 

As such, slaaneshi alpha legion is perfectly valid, lore wise. Same with iron warriors & word bearers. There are legions and warbands that, by the fluff, ate supposed to orient towards a particular god (eg: purge is supposed to be all nurgle, even though im not sure the rules require it... then again last i heard they were also a death guard offshoot, and should be using that book instead of generic codex csm, but w/e), but there arent any by current lore that strictly avoid marks from any god.

 

That said, if your only reason for embracing tge youngest god's favor is mechanical, that may not serve you well jn the long run. Mechanics come and go. For a long time nurgle was the best alignment for fire support. Now slaanesh is. I. A couple years it might be tzeentch. It might not be worth chasing the trend.

 

 

Otherwise, black legion has some nice stuff these days, especially witj vigilus burning additions. Black and gold is super striking, gives you an excuse to experiment with thise alcohol based vallejo liquid metal paints. And imo what they lack in legion trait they more than make up for in stratagems, artefacts, warlord traits, and special characters. Abaddon, for instance is a beast. As is a warlord discordant with the halve-incoming-damage trait. Definitely worth a second look before settling down elsewhere.

[Sume]

For me I am still used to Chaos in 40k and Fantasy, where they where Chaos Undivided or Mono god.  Unless it was black legion.  

 

I am after more of a fluff flavor here.  I am thinking that since the Dark Prince is my favorite anyways.  That I am going to dedicate them to Slaanesh even if its not to tactical sound or mechanically best.  I will still play this force as Slaanesh, when a different power becomes better.  

 

So I am now debating between the Black Legion, Emperors Children, Alpha Legion, or Flawless host.  I am going to go with some squads of Terminators.  They may not be the best, but I really like the new models.  The Black legion is pulling out ahead for the extra warlord trait, of course I do like the Emperors children always strike first.  I know it catches people off guard with my demons.  Alpha legion that -1 hit is to tasty.

 

Black Legion I think will serve me the best in terms of long levity in what I pick for the future.  As I think it can let me make something that should be fluffy regardless.  

[Sception]

Not really any bad options from what you listed. Red Coursairs might be worth adding to the consideration list as well, as their bonus command points for fielding basic chaos marines are quite nice. I'm considering putting together a side detachment of them for my otherwise mostly black legion, esp considering that Abby & Huron have been something of a buddy cop tag team in recent campaigns.

[General Strike]

Slaanesh is pretty good too, with the shoot twice stratagem. I have a red corsair core with slaanesh Obliterators and CSM, and a battalion of WE with zerkers. Wrath and Rapture style.

[Sume]

I decided upon having a Black Legion Brigade.  Still sorting out what to place in it still.  Thinking some CSM as troops.  Still figuring out if I even want to mark these.  Most likely they will have just autocannons, so they can help me camp objectives.  A terminator squad, even if they are not ideal as cheap as I can go.  So combi-bolter and chain axe, this is defiantly getting mark of Slaanesh for shoot twice stratagem.   A chaos sorcerer w/terminator armor, unsure mark yet, up for grabs between Nurgle and Tzeentch.  The warlord shall be a demon prince, with a sword.  I know it looks like the double talons are better but when I put this guy together last year, he was meant to join my Slaanesh demons as anti-tank hunter/hero killer.  This guy is getting the Black Legion trait to help him reduce wounds, use the traitor of councils for the Terminator sorcerer for the 5+ regain a command point trait.  

 

Only thing that leaves me unsure.  Whats a good way to break up the all black and gold, and show a way to identify if a unit has a mark or not.  I was thinking maybe the softer under armor?  I originally thought a half black/purple go over well and look cool.  Expect upon rechecking fluff thats a no go.  Do you guys paint a shoulder pad?, or maybe the gun casing different6?  Kinda unsure.  

[Darnok]

Only thing that leaves me unsure.  Whats a good way to break up the all black and gold, and show a way to identify if a unit has a mark or not.  I was thinking maybe the softer under armor?  I originally thought a half black/purple go over well and look cool.  Expect upon rechecking fluff thats a no go.  Do you guys paint a shoulder pad?, or maybe the gun casing different6?  Kinda unsure.  

Shoulder pads are an easy option, and you can do it two ways. Either paint the shoulder pad in a different colour and the rest black/gold - or vice versa. This works just as well with the helmet (or helmet/shoulderpad(s)).

 

Another idea - and this goes way back to the 2nd edition codex:

See the commentary on "blend contrasting colours into base colour"? Play around with that on any part of the armour you want.

[Sume]

That 2nd edition idea appears interesting.  I might have to try that out on some test models.