CSM Loadouts

[Ironandforge]

So Im struggling to find enough plasma guns for 3 10 and squads.  am i crazy to consider other options like melta and flamers for special weapons?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

So Im struggling to find enough plasma guns for 3 10 and squads.  am i crazy to consider other options like melta and flamers for special weapons?

Not crazy if the abilities you've selected for the army will work with them. Red Corsairs, for example will be advancing alot, so anything Assault is handy. Scourged get a single reroll whenever they shoot, so melta works better for them than some other armies....and so on.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Unfortunately there's just not much reason to take melta over plasma. The plasma is more versatile and has better range. The melta has the potential to deal more damage, but only at very close ranges. On average, the plasma is just going to do more over the course of a match. If you have no re-rolls to hit, then the melta might be worth considering.

 

In previous editions, meltas had a big advantage in that they could penetrate armor that plasma just couldn't, and had a solid chance of 1 shotting or crippling armor, and could instant death characters. Now they just don't. The mechanical niche they occupied no longer exists, so there's just no point in them, sadly.

 

Flamers are in a different role from plasma, so they do have a purpose still. But they're not actually that good at it. They are an anti-horde weapon, but they just don't do all that much. They were situational in the past when they could reliably hit 5+ guys with the template and ignored 5+ armor. Now they average 3.5hits and don't even have any AP. In a melee or close range squad they could have their uses, but it's not much. They are slightly better for loyalists who can get re-roll wounds, but CSM can't. And as an anti horde weapon, the chain cannon is miles ahead.

 

So yeah, it's basically plasma or chain cannons for regular CSM these days :/

[Ironandforge]

Unfortunately there's just not much reason to take melta over plasma. The plasma is more versatile and has better range. The melta has the potential to deal more damage, but only at very close ranges. On average, the plasma is just going to do more over the course of a match. If you have no re-rolls to hit, then the melta might be worth considering.

 

In previous editions, meltas had a big advantage in that they could penetrate armor that plasma just couldn't, and had a solid chance of 1 shotting or crippling armor, and could instant death characters. Now they just don't. The mechanical niche they occupied no longer exists, so there's just no point in them, sadly.

 

Flamers are in a different role from plasma, so they do have a purpose still. But they're not actually that good at it. They are an anti-horde weapon, but they just don't do all that much. They were situational in the past when they could reliably hit 5+ guys with the template and ignored 5+ armor. Now they average 3.5hits and don't even have any AP. In a melee or close range squad they could have their uses, but it's not much. They are slightly better for loyalists who can get re-roll wounds, but CSM can't. And as an anti horde weapon, the chain cannon is miles ahead.

 

So yeah, it's basically plasma or chain cannons for regular CSM these days :/

thats pretty much what i was thinking, but finding the plasma guns is proving difficult.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

 

Unfortunately there's just not much reason to take melta over plasma. The plasma is more versatile and has better range. The melta has the potential to deal more damage, but only at very close ranges. On average, the plasma is just going to do more over the course of a match. If you have no re-rolls to hit, then the melta might be worth considering.

 

In previous editions, meltas had a big advantage in that they could penetrate armor that plasma just couldn't, and had a solid chance of 1 shotting or crippling armor, and could instant death characters. Now they just don't. The mechanical niche they occupied no longer exists, so there's just no point in them, sadly.

 

Flamers are in a different role from plasma, so they do have a purpose still. But they're not actually that good at it. They are an anti-horde weapon, but they just don't do all that much. They were situational in the past when they could reliably hit 5+ guys with the template and ignored 5+ armor. Now they average 3.5hits and don't even have any AP. In a melee or close range squad they could have their uses, but it's not much. They are slightly better for loyalists who can get re-roll wounds, but CSM can't. And as an anti horde weapon, the chain cannon is miles ahead.

 

So yeah, it's basically plasma or chain cannons for regular CSM these days :/

thats pretty much what i was thinking, but finding the plasma guns is proving difficult.

 

 

I know there used to be stand alone special weapons packs, and forgeworld ones, but i've got no clue if those are still around.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

At least in Canada, you can still mail order sets of 5 plasma guns from GW.  They are loyalist plasmaguns, but that shouldn't matter too much.

[Reyner]

You can still get a pack of 10 Legion Plasma Guns from Forgeworld:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legion-Plasma-Gun-Set-2015

[Squike]

you can still get a 5 pack of plasma from GW

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Plasma-Guns

[Brother Aiwass]

I'm not the most successful general, but I think it depends on how you want to use the unit. Shooty ones likes plasma, yes, but assaulty ones may also enjoy melta or flamer, specially if you are renegade as you can advance and charge. You may not kill the unit shooting at them, but removing an enemy model or two can be helpful.

[Furnace Lord]

I'm unsure what to take on my Aspiring Champions. Combi-plasmas look interesting, though I'm not sure if firing both parts is a good idea with the plasma. I know Havoc champs can take normal special weapons, did champs in marine squads get access to just standard plasma guns as well? Do you think a single Combi-bolter is worth it on a champ? It's a reasonable upgrade in bolter shots for a tiny price.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'm unsure what to take on my Aspiring Champions. Combi-plasmas look interesting, though I'm not sure if firing both parts is a good idea with the plasma. I know Havoc champs can take normal special weapons, did champs in marine squads get access to just standard plasma guns as well? Do you think a single Combi-bolter is worth it on a champ? It's a reasonable upgrade in bolter shots for a tiny price.

 

Plasma and Combi-Plasma cost the same amount, so there's literally no reason not to take the combi version. Firing bolter+overcharge plasma can be a bad idea (unless you have +1 to hit from something), but firing bolter+normal plasma is good when shooting most infantry.

 

Regular combi-bolters are also great for their points. Always worth taking over a bolter. 2pts for double the firepower of the stock bolter is a great deal.

[MegaVolt87]

Call me crazy, but I actually like the plasma pistol on the CSM troop champions. Its cheap, they will be mid-field anyway for range. 

[Brother Talarian]

As black legion, what about x2 melta in a 5 man squad running/advancing around when needed. They’ll always be able to fire and are cheap enough troops

[Closet Skeleton]

5 man dual melta squads are alright, they're just too expensive for a unit that might not do anything but catch a bunch of bullets or fail 4+ wound rolls. A lascannon is still cheaper than 2 meltas and will likely get to fire more times than the meltas.

[Brother Talarian]

Fair enough, my thinking was having them run around in cover and cap objectives. As black legion they can still fire all weps. If they pull small are fire they’ll be pretty durable with a 2+. If they pull heavy fire that’s a win for me as they’re not shootig tastier things.

[Chardun]

As Black Legion, your Plasma Guns become Assault Weapons when you Advance. You just get a bunch of Bolter Shots to go with them.

 

As other have said, melta is just in a bad position these days. Half the range for about the same cost.

[Subtle Discord]

Don't be charitable, it's half range, with a buff at a further half range (read: make it count, next turn, your dead), for more points. Like any wargear, it's not if you take one (in most cases) it's when you start equipping a few squads that way and the extra points add up. Melta is suffering from poor consideration with how the new mechanics work in 8th, but even then it's not the weapon you want to camp objectives; in that case go for plasma which matches up well with the Bolters in range, or in some cases a Flamer if you expect they'll be susceptible to charges, and the Lascannon really is a reliable heavy workhorse (they are pricey but they do real work at long range) but if you want to trim costs consider some Autocannons.

[MegaVolt87]

Melta and flamers seems in a tough spot for sure. The 9' deepstrike limit is brutal, I am guessing it was to mainly avoid easy charges to melee from deep strike, more than nerfing shooting specifically.