Terminators vs Bikers

[HighMarshalAmp]

Insert Judgement Day joke here.

 

I'm keen to add to my humble Deathwatch forces (1 Watch Cpt w/ Power Axe + SB and 5 Vets w/ CS+ SB, PA on Blackshield and Sgt).

 

I'm torn between 2x5 Terminators as DSable 4-shots-per-model SIA platforms and 2x3 Bikers as a mobile unit to compensate for what will probably be a rather static playstyle for now.

 

Which one would you go for?

[Mr4Minutes]

The termies will survive longer and be harder to dig out.

 

3 bikes are not hard to counter unfortunately.

 

So if it’s one or the other, I’d say termies.

[MadEdric]

Why not one unit of both? This gives you a fast moving squad, a DS capable squad, and it allows you to take a teleport beacon that will let the terminators pop back to your deployment area if you need.

[Syward]

I'd say the 2x TDA squads, 40 shots of SIA @ 30" is a really good threat, especially if you can deploy/DS them into cover. Chewing through 20 woulds with a 2+/5++ save is going to take some effort from your opponent, effort they may have to choose to pull away from another target. 

 

I'm in the process of adding 2x TDA squads w/PF + SB and 2x CML in my army for the very purpose of sitting in cover with a Capt & 2x Ven Dreads w/TLLC to provide my back line fire support while the rest of my army advances/deep strikes into rapid fire range.

[GrinNfool]

Not sure I understand the comparison on this.  2 3 man biker squads aren't comparable to 10 terms, I am unsure as to why the choice is 2 biker squads or 2 terms.  I assume its just what you are willing to spend in this case not a question of points. 10 terms (barebones w/ power swords) point wise is closer to 3 4 man bike squads in cost 312 points for the bikers 310 for the terms.  Comparison is a lot more even too, 20 shots for each biker squad and each term squad.  At this point you are comparing do you value or the armor save or the t5, better mobility and 20 extra shots.  If you were basing it purely from a points perspective bikers are generally more points efficient especially from an offensive perspective, but if your goal is to just frustrate your opponent then throwing terms in cover will do that.

 

3 4x bike squads also turns your deathwatch force into an outrider, so thats an added bonus.

[IronDreddKnight]

Point fir point, bikes will have greater fire power and mobility. But termies have greater durability.

 

In my opinion, a veteran squad with a couple of termies, SB and SS behaves very similarly to a termie squad (Combined with cover, DS and bolter beta rules)

 

What this unit doesn’t have, is mobility, so bikes would be the better choice IMO.

[vigitant]

Point fir point, bikes will have greater fire power and mobility. But termies have greater durability.

 

In my opinion, a veteran squad with a couple of termies, SB and SS behaves very similarly to a termie squad (Combined with cover, DS and bolter beta rules)

 

What this unit doesn’t have, is mobility, so bikes would be the better choice IMO.

This.

 

 

DW has a frightening 30" aura of death now, with bolter discipline.

The bikes can push up the flanks a bit, and extend this.

 

We have long range, but not table range.  We need to get our opponent to move in range.

Terminators can deepstrike in, but not till turn 2, and they typically draw off AT or anti-elite shooting, that tends to have range anyway.

 

Bikes can be doing their job turn 1.  they can cover for your kill teams turn 1, or if you can out range the enemy anti-infantry, they either:

a. move up to get their guns in range and claim board space.  Sure they might kill your bikes, but they are also going to be taking your full weight of fire.  You'll win that trade.  If they move melee units up, much like with scouts, they wont be able to engage another unit to prevent shooting.

b.  try to skirt the flanks to minimize return fire.  This is a mistake, but one you'll see occasionally.  This splits their forces, and avoids board control.  I cannot stress the importance of board control.  It is something deathwatch is surprisingly good at holding.

[Mobius0288]

Might be of similar discussion, but what do you guys think in kill teams? A couple of bikes vs a couple of termies in a kill team for soaking up wounds and/or adding firepower?

[shandwen]

Might be of similar discussion, but what do you guys think in kill teams? A couple of bikes vs a couple of termies in a kill team for soaking up wounds and/or adding firepower?

I always tried to put one cheap termie in each squad. He would either duck up the early firepower or permit the entire squad to redeploy via beacon late in the game.

[BrotherAetherick]

My vote goes to separate unit bikers as well.

 

If it ever gets FAQ'd that kill team bikers get bolter discipline while moving, then that may change my mind.

 

As for kill teams. In my opinion the first terminator is much more important than the first bike. I would also add a second terminator before the first bike. The 2+ save ups the survivability of a kill team by a crazy amount against ap0. I would still take bikers (with teleport homers) either in kill teams or a separate entry just for the teleport homer though, the ability to teleport tri locked veterans is game winning, but of course, you need a terminator alive to do this (hence the two termies). My kill teams usually have 2 termies, 1 bike, 1 vanguard, the rest veterans. 

 

I don't think standalone terminators are that great, they are much better embedded in kill teams.

[Kallas]

I always tried to put one cheap termie in each squad. He would either duck up the early firepower or permit the entire squad to redeploy via beacon late in the game.

 

This. I've only played a few games with Deathwatch so far, but the Terminator has been damn solid. My big 10-man units have one Vanguard, Terminator (SB/Axe), and Biker (with Teleport Homer): the Terminator's Sv2+ has been very good for soaking up AP0 damage; and the Teleport Homers have been useful in two games already, plus looking back I can see how some better Homer deployment would have benefited in my previous games.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If I field a terminator in a Veteran Squad I arm him with a power fist... in for a penny in for a pound. I don’t think bikers are worth it for Veteran Squads but they are pretty good in a pure Biker Squad... I wouldn’t run a pure Terminator Squad though.