Loyal 32

[Brother Talarian]

Would there be any downside of running 2 sorcerers and 3 min sized squads of CSM?

 

3 CSM can camp out in back and the two sorc would help fling spells and the like?

 

Two Warpsmiths is cheaper but actually useless.... unless I’m missing something?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Wouldn't that be a "Disloyal 17"? :P

 

It seems like the go-to method of CP farming for chaos, provided you field these particular detachments as Red Corsairs in order to get the bonus CP for fielding CSM squads.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Yes, Sorcerers are a good pick for this because their buffs are not restricted to <Legion>, whereas auras and prayers are. Bike or Steed Sorcs are looking especially attractive these days as they are more resistant to Vindicare's due to the extra toughness for the bike, and not being Infantry.

 

Note that the Master of Possession's powers ARE locked to <Legion>

[Brother Talarian]

Haha, indeed. Disloyal 17, rather.

 

Excellent. I thought as much. Sorcerers are aweosme, in more competitive games perhaps I’ll do this, one sorc in terminator armor dropping down with termies (and Abby) and one doing something else exciting.

 

Also changing one unit into a unit of 20 might not be bad. They would also be fearless in the presence of Abby.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Huron is worth considering if you are going to footslog 20 CSM. He can give bonus CP, and is able to give an aura AND a psychic power. So a nice combo of a lord and sorc, and cheap, and can give CP if he's your warlord (although of course if you are running Abaddon, it's better for him to be the warlord.)

[Brother Talarian]

Nice, another valid point, cheers.

Was also considering a DP. While more expensive it can be neat to charge him up the board, cause havoc and disrupt the lines.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Nice, another valid point, cheers.

Was also considering a DP. While more expensive it can be neat to charge him up the board, cause havoc and disrupt the lines.

 

DPs are great, but will probably be better off in another detachment due to its aura. Unless it's going to be solo and your other detachments are full on HQs. But that's unlikely.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Heretical 17 Sir. 

 

A thought that I had was running a "Master of Executions" with the Red Corsairs detachment.

 

He is after all a melee character, he is relatively cheap being just 10 points more than a Warpsmith.... and he gains "run+charge" for his very meaty melee weapon and offers nothing to surrounding units anyway regardless of detachment so you aren't paying points fo ran aura you won't ever use.

If you have a melee section of the list that for some reason IS NOT part of the corsair section throw the Master of Executions running with/beside it and slam him into the nearest vulnerable character, or heck even a tank!  5 Swings at str 8, hitting on stat is pretty sweet for his point cost and he could easily make it back. (Even better if he gets into base with a character!!) 

For his points cost it seems reasonable and him not having an aura that is beneficial and being a solid melee HQ means his selfishness in this case is not lost on the army list. 

The other HQ? Either a Lord or a Sorcerer. Either/Or. If the 15 marines are sitting at home babysitting objectives toss a Heavy Bolter and a Combi onto the squad and park them in cover for a reasonably costed fire base. 231 for 3 combi bolters + 3 auto cannons + 15 marines. Tack on a Sorcerer naked with a force sword and the Master of Executions and your sitting at 399 for the Heretical 17. 

 

Not quite as economical as the 32, but they will stick around far longer and the hq's therein have some real utility with the rest of our codex. 

[Raven1]

Red Corsairs would be best for this, including one squad of 20 marines w/ 2 heavy weapons you can bring back on the battlefield. Otherwise cheap lords.

[Sonoftherubric21]

For frame of reference folks: the *CHEAPEST* we can make the Heretical 17 is in fact 315.

 

This is with 2 naked warpsmiths and 15 naked chaos marines with no upgrades. 

[Darnok]

I prefer "Spiky Seventeen", alliterations and all that.

 

While it is nice for the CP, I would still invest more than the absolute minimum, so those units can actually contribute to the rest of the army. Some long range firepower, some psychic powers. They could further profit from a Noctilith Crown.

 

But yeah, definitely something worth considering.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I prefer "Spiky Seventeen", alliterations and all that.

 

While it is nice for the CP, I would still invest more than the absolute minimum, so those units can actually contribute to the rest of the army. Some long range firepower, some psychic powers. They could further profit from a Noctilith Crown.

 

But yeah, definitely something worth considering.

 

Sinister Seventeen! 

 

And I agree with this: In my write ups Autocannons in each squad and combi-plasma or combi-bolters. Sorcerer, and Master of Execution ends up being what I use for the cross-over and general use. 

[techsoldaten]

Not sure about the disloyal 17.

 

How does it compare with an R&H detachment with a couple commanders and infantry squads? You'd get more wounds, more board control, ability to take mortars, etc, for less points. You'd still get the command points.

 

Honestly, if it's really about the CPs, you could upgrade to a Brigade for not much more than that CSM detachment.

[slitth]

For some reason I could see them purely story perspective as a group of Fallen Dark Angels.

 

The Fallen 17 going from war-zone to war-zone look for a way to survive while getting what they want.

 

And you for some reason do want to use them for CP farming, you can just take Cypher and run the as normal Fallen.

[Vorenus]

I prefer the term "Heretical 17" or "Heretical 32" over "Disloyal 17/32."  Or the term "Seventeen Seekers of Truth" if you want to buy into the propaganda.

[Brother Aiwass]

Heretical 17 or "Filthy Few" for me.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm going for the heretical 34, two battalions of Red Corsairs then filled out with other stuff in those battalions. 

[Subtle Discord]

Yeah, after considering a double Battalion I'm looking at the Brigade and thinking it's the way to go to create a solid center for a larger collection. I always build my collections with the idea of having a core selection of go-to units that compose the army as I'll likely want to play it most often, and then add other units or blocks that can be alternated in to change things up for variety or to deal with a particular strategy that might crop up in the local meta. If I can fill out a Brigade then it's just a matter of adding an HQ or two and a few more units and it can easily be slipt up into other detachment combinations. Note that I do play Black Legion so that does offer my army more flexibility thanks to both the fiction and the rules that the Black Legion enjoy.

[Tokugawa]

Once Red Corsair, you would WANT to use strategem bringing one full squad back. So 20+5+5 men CSM squads. And still a total of 32 models.

[tbone]

I wonder if bringing a Red Corsairs 20 man CSM squad would make us take another look at Fabious Bile. The Red Corsair strat pretty much negates his tenancy to kill 1/6 off the squad.